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I think it's silly we have to judge what the article is saying by how it's argued in the HN comments, especially on something divisive where many comments react

I think it's silly we have to judge what the article is saying by how it's argued in the HN comments, especially on something divisive where many comments react to the conclusions they made when they saw the title. The article doesn't go as far as saying Electron is bad or judge Anthropic based on their use of it. It says Electron has downsides which are dramatically outweighed by the upsides and then shows that calculus remains true (i.e. the benefits of Electron still outweigh any of the potential downsides) even when using LLMs as coding agents. The article is not setting out to ridicule anything, it's investigating why Electron is still a good choice in the coding agent use case by looking at one such app (the Claude desktop app) written very close to home for coding agents as an example. About the only thing the article can be said to ridicule at all is that the Claude app is slow and buggy (which is accurate IMO) but it's never saying that to imply it's impossible to solve that because it's an Electron app or that it means one should not use coding agents. The rest of the article really stands to state quite the opposite. As the article concludes, it is a pro-Electron usage pro-coding-agent piece. I.e. that the Claude desktop app is written in Electron is NOT evidence either Claude or Electron must be bad: > For now, Electron still makes sense. Coding agents are amazing. But the last mile of dev and the support surface area remains a real concern. That last mile is where the author places the problems, and they had placed them there regardless whether one uses Electron or coding agents, so it's hard to take it as a hit piece for those two things.

selridge 8mo ago
I mean the article is pretty short. And what it implies presents itself in the subtitle! It opens with a "fact" (a link to the author's own tweet) which says: "The state of coding agents can be summed up by this anecdote: Claude spent $20k on an agent swarm implementing (kinda) a C-compiler in Rust, but desktop Claude is an Electron app." We haven't made it 100 words in and we already have the core claim. In case we missed it, the author puts it in an inset later: >So why are we still using Electron and not embracing the agent-powered, spec driven development future? We get to the end where the author says: "For now, Electron still makes sense. Coding agents are amazing. But the last mile of dev and the support surface area remains a real concern." That's both true and and misleading. It's misleading because we can all agree with this sober-minded concluding statement and forget it's just based on "Electron bad, native good". The real logical sequence the author needs us to follow is: Anthropic said code is free now. > Native code is harder than that for a cross platform runtime > Anthropic releases an app on a cross-platform runtime > code must not be free. That is only true iff there's absolutely no other design tradeoff! Did they pick electron because robots are bad at the last mile? Maybe. It's pretty dubious, given the MANY MANY other people who made electron apps before AI could code. It's also not at all clear "native good, electron bad" is true at all. It reminds me STRONGLY of "jQuery bad / native good" which was also groundless.
- zamadatix 8mo ago
  I think we see that opening from very different perspectives. You see it as "this kind of statement must only mean they wish to attack these things with it, as that's the only conclusion I would make from the statement" whereas I see it as "this statement grabs the reader's attention to make them read through on why the author likely sees it differently than the reader would assume one normally expect from that". It is relatively short. I don't see that as a crime though, particularly for the latter style posting you don't want to lose most of the audience before the end. I.e. yes, coding agents can't make everyone happy and do 100% of everything - but by the end the opposite of the expected point from that is reasoned. It may not be exhaustive, but that does not automatically mean the sole point is reductionist. It only takes one counterexample of reasoning to show a point invalid, so if you don't assume the goal is to make Electron and Claude actually sound bad then these points are not really problematic. As someone who sees themselves more towards the center of the AI debate I found the article surprisingly refreshing in not trying to argue absolutes about extremes. Others who sit more towards the extremes probably see it as an attack piece (regardless of which extreme) just because it doesn't go as far as they'd like in each regard.
  - selridge 8mo ago
    It's just a category of an error of a piece. You can't conclude anything reliably from their choice of electron over native apps. You can't. You can ASSERT things like the author does, like "The state of coding agents can be summed up by this fact: Claude spent $20k on an agent swarm implementing (kinda) a C-compiler in Rust, but desktop Claude is an Electron app." That's a fine assertion. It's just not a fact or knowledge about any kind of design decision. The whole argument revolves around knowing that electron is a compromise because one could just make multiple native apps without asking if "make multiple native apps" serves a design need the developers had at all! If the developers (like many others who use electron) did not declare "we want to make native apps" or have a need that caused that to become a desire, then inferring that using electron is a compromise at all is groundless. It may never have been a compromise to begin with!
    - 8mo ago

selridge 8mo ago

I mean the article is pretty short. And what it implies presents itself in the subtitle! It opens with a "fact" (a link to the author's own tweet) which says: "The state of coding agents can be summed up by this anecdote: Claude spent $20k on an agent swarm implementing (kinda) a C-compiler in Rust, but desktop Claude is an Electron app." We haven't made it 100 words in and we already have the core claim. In case we missed it, the author puts it in an inset later: >So why are we still using Electron and not embracing the agent-powered, spec driven development future? We get to the end where the author says: "For now, Electron still makes sense. Coding agents are amazing. But the last mile of dev and the support surface area remains a real concern." That's both true and and misleading. It's misleading because we can all agree with this sober-minded concluding statement and forget it's just based on "Electron bad, native good". The real logical sequence the author needs us to follow is: Anthropic said code is free now. > Native code is harder than that for a cross platform runtime > Anthropic releases an app on a cross-platform runtime > code must not be free. That is only true iff there's absolutely no other design tradeoff! Did they pick electron because robots are bad at the last mile? Maybe. It's pretty dubious, given the MANY MANY other people who made electron apps before AI could code. It's also not at all clear "native good, electron bad" is true at all. It reminds me STRONGLY of "jQuery bad / native good" which was also groundless.

zamadatix 8mo ago
I think we see that opening from very different perspectives. You see it as "this kind of statement must only mean they wish to attack these things with it, as that's the only conclusion I would make from the statement" whereas I see it as "this statement grabs the reader's attention to make them read through on why the author likely sees it differently than the reader would assume one normally expect from that". It is relatively short. I don't see that as a crime though, particularly for the latter style posting you don't want to lose most of the audience before the end. I.e. yes, coding agents can't make everyone happy and do 100% of everything - but by the end the opposite of the expected point from that is reasoned. It may not be exhaustive, but that does not automatically mean the sole point is reductionist. It only takes one counterexample of reasoning to show a point invalid, so if you don't assume the goal is to make Electron and Claude actually sound bad then these points are not really problematic. As someone who sees themselves more towards the center of the AI debate I found the article surprisingly refreshing in not trying to argue absolutes about extremes. Others who sit more towards the extremes probably see it as an attack piece (regardless of which extreme) just because it doesn't go as far as they'd like in each regard.
- selridge 8mo ago
  It's just a category of an error of a piece. You can't conclude anything reliably from their choice of electron over native apps. You can't. You can ASSERT things like the author does, like "The state of coding agents can be summed up by this fact: Claude spent $20k on an agent swarm implementing (kinda) a C-compiler in Rust, but desktop Claude is an Electron app." That's a fine assertion. It's just not a fact or knowledge about any kind of design decision. The whole argument revolves around knowing that electron is a compromise because one could just make multiple native apps without asking if "make multiple native apps" serves a design need the developers had at all! If the developers (like many others who use electron) did not declare "we want to make native apps" or have a need that caused that to become a desire, then inferring that using electron is a compromise at all is groundless. It may never have been a compromise to begin with!
  - 8mo ago