4 ms·

Maybe you should ask a few Palestinians before making such statements. Polls made by respected Palestinian surveyors show immense support for Hamas by Palestini

by fortzi 8mo ago

Maybe you should ask a few Palestinians before making such statements. Polls made by respected Palestinian surveyors show immense support for Hamas by Palestinians [1]. If you dig inti the polls, you’ll find great support in continuing the armed conflict. I’ll add: to the last man standing. While I agree with you that Hamas and the Palestinians are not one thing, Hamas would not be able to operate the way it did (and still does to an extent), without broad support from the population. [1] https://www.pcpsr.org/ https://www.pcpsr.org/

bigyabai 8mo ago
Even still, that data does not refute the parent's point that you are making a false equivalency. Polling Israeli or US citizens on the extremist groups they support would be similarly dishonest; organizations like ICE, Blackwater and Irgun cannot be fairly conflated with their respective populations regardless of how the majority feels.
- Rover222 8mo ago
  Palestinians voted Hamas into power by a large majority. It's not some fringe extremist group. It's mainstream Palestinian culture.
  - Hikikomori 8mo ago
    "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."
    - fortzi 8mo ago
      Right, the current Israeli administration is horrible, especially the far right that keeps it alive. I invite you to oppose that government and help the opposition take power. Instead, you’re making the opposition weaker by putting all the Israelis in one basket. You should read about the Oslo accords and the failed talks at Camp David. This is to say that Israel has been trying for a long time to make peace with the Palestinians. Them not wanting has led most to give up and stop fighting the extremists.
      - Hikikomori 8mo ago
        Dont need your victim theatrics, we both know who made that comment. We both also know Ben gurions private correspondence and what the plan always was for Israel. We both know the majority of Israel supports the settlements and the status quo in Gaza, but maybe not the last few years. We both know they went out to protest against the punishment of your rapists. Oslo and David talks included poison pills so that Palestinians would never agree to it. While I believe that Hamas should not exist I do believe the powers in Israel wants them to. Essentially everyone but Israel supports the 1967 borders today, but Hamas does not recognize Israel, just like Israel didn't recognize Palestine in the Oslo accords, that would also allow settlements in the west bank to continue.
        fortzi 8mo ago
        The Oslo accords were supposed to lead to a Palestinian state. The exploding busses in Tel Aviv didn’t help. I don’t know what Ben Gurion’s private correspondence was, but it sure binds me, a millennial! Your aggressive rhetoric doesn’t impress anyone, instead it signals your emotional gut response, probably an ill informed one. You already hate me, a stranger, and nothing I will say will make you reconsider your position. That is because you hold it because you want to, and not because of real investigation.
        Hikikomori 8mo ago
        What Ben gurion wanted has not changed. I'm I'll informed yet you have no idea what your country really was from the start. Not sure if it's feigned victimhood or if you feel guilty for what your country is doing. Either way you seem to take what your country does personally.
        fortzi 8mo ago
        Maybe it hasn’t changed because he’s been dead for decades. Arab Israelis are a fact, despite what you think he wrote in his diary, and despite him having all the power to execute on whatever he wanted.
- fortzi 8mo ago
  In this context, “support” doesn’t mean “I like these guys”, it means concrete political support, as in “I’d vote for them”
dataflow 8mo ago
> Maybe you should ask a few Palestinians before making such statements. Polls made by respected Palestinian surveyors show immense support for Hamas by Palestinians I never made the statements you're suggesting I did to begin with. > Hamas would not be able to operate the way it did (and still does to an extent), without broad support from the population. Leaving aside whatever "still broad, to an extent" means: I never claimed otherwise, regardless. Certainly they have their share of supporters. What I'm pointing out is that the parent's "friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine" are not (probably not? or hopefully not, at least in their view?) pro-Hamas or pro-genocide. Heck, I imagine they're probably not local Palestinians or in the surveyed population here to begin with. And the rest of the people around the world supporting Palestinians clearly aren't, either. > I agree with you that Hamas and the Palestinians are not one thing That was literally my point.
Hikikomori 8mo ago
Fighting your oppressors is usually popular with the oppressed.
- fortzi 8mo ago
  Israel was prepared for peace a long time ago. Nowadays Many Israelis are convinced that the Palestinians don’t want peace, but rather a fight to the death. This thwarts any hope of trying for peace again on the Israeli side.
_hf1g 8mo ago
[dead]
thrance 8mo ago
Yes, and if you poll Israelis about their views of Palestinians, you'll find that the majority want to exterminate them all. What does that say about Israel? Fucking nothing except that we shouldn't be funding either of them. And we aren't arming Hamas. What matters is that pro-Palestinians aren't calling for the extermination of Israel, while Zionists are clearly calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Wanting the war to end does not automatically make you a Hamas terrorist, obviously.
- fortzi 8mo ago
  I don’t know, these chants of “river to the sea” accompanied by signs with maps of israel fully covered with a Palestinian flag tell me the opposite. > if you poll Israelis about their views of Palestinians, you'll find that the majority want to exterminate them all Can you point me to that poll, or is that just your opinion? > Zionists are clearly calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza First of all, you clearly don’t know what Zionism is. Hell, it means different things for different people. Let me help you out: for most Israelis, Zionism is about independence and sovereignty for the jewish people. While there are Israelies who want the Palestinians out, only the crazies are actually considering it as a plausible reality. These crazies gain more political power the more the general population loses its faith the Palestinians are wanting peace, as opposed to fighting to the last man standing. You should read about the Oslo accords and the later failed talks at Camp David. Lastly, wanting to vote for Hamas is absolutely not about wanting the war to end, as Hamas is a perpetrator of it. How did you make this astonishing logical leap?
  - dataflow 8mo ago
    >> if you poll Israelis about their views of Palestinians, you'll find that the majority want to exterminate them all > Can you point me to that poll, or is that just your opinion? Not the parent, and not claiming anything about the truth or falsehood of this, but your comment got me to Google it, and this is what I found: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support-expulsion-palestinians-gaza-poll https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support... https://www.trtworld.com/article/8802bc2d5043 https://www.trtworld.com/article/8802bc2d5043 Original source appears to be here: https://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/2025-05-22/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/00000196-f3a3-d6d3-ab9e-f3bbf6070000 https://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/2025-05-22/ty-article-mag... Is this what you were asking for? What do you think of it?

by fortzi 8mo ago

bigyabai 8mo ago

Even still, that data does not refute the parent's point that you are making a false equivalency. Polling Israeli or US citizens on the extremist groups they support would be similarly dishonest; organizations like ICE, Blackwater and Irgun cannot be fairly conflated with their respective populations regardless of how the majority feels.

Rover222 8mo ago
Palestinians voted Hamas into power by a large majority. It's not some fringe extremist group. It's mainstream Palestinian culture.
- Hikikomori 8mo ago
  "Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas. This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank."
  - fortzi 8mo ago
    Right, the current Israeli administration is horrible, especially the far right that keeps it alive. I invite you to oppose that government and help the opposition take power. Instead, you’re making the opposition weaker by putting all the Israelis in one basket. You should read about the Oslo accords and the failed talks at Camp David. This is to say that Israel has been trying for a long time to make peace with the Palestinians. Them not wanting has led most to give up and stop fighting the extremists.
    - Hikikomori 8mo ago
      Dont need your victim theatrics, we both know who made that comment. We both also know Ben gurions private correspondence and what the plan always was for Israel. We both know the majority of Israel supports the settlements and the status quo in Gaza, but maybe not the last few years. We both know they went out to protest against the punishment of your rapists. Oslo and David talks included poison pills so that Palestinians would never agree to it. While I believe that Hamas should not exist I do believe the powers in Israel wants them to. Essentially everyone but Israel supports the 1967 borders today, but Hamas does not recognize Israel, just like Israel didn't recognize Palestine in the Oslo accords, that would also allow settlements in the west bank to continue.
      - fortzi 8mo ago
        The Oslo accords were supposed to lead to a Palestinian state. The exploding busses in Tel Aviv didn’t help. I don’t know what Ben Gurion’s private correspondence was, but it sure binds me, a millennial! Your aggressive rhetoric doesn’t impress anyone, instead it signals your emotional gut response, probably an ill informed one. You already hate me, a stranger, and nothing I will say will make you reconsider your position. That is because you hold it because you want to, and not because of real investigation.
        Hikikomori 8mo ago
        What Ben gurion wanted has not changed. I'm I'll informed yet you have no idea what your country really was from the start. Not sure if it's feigned victimhood or if you feel guilty for what your country is doing. Either way you seem to take what your country does personally.
        fortzi 8mo ago
        Maybe it hasn’t changed because he’s been dead for decades. Arab Israelis are a fact, despite what you think he wrote in his diary, and despite him having all the power to execute on whatever he wanted.
fortzi 8mo ago
In this context, “support” doesn’t mean “I like these guys”, it means concrete political support, as in “I’d vote for them”

dataflow 8mo ago

> Maybe you should ask a few Palestinians before making such statements. Polls made by respected Palestinian surveyors show immense support for Hamas by Palestinians I never made the statements you're suggesting I did to begin with. > Hamas would not be able to operate the way it did (and still does to an extent), without broad support from the population. Leaving aside whatever "still broad, to an extent" means: I never claimed otherwise, regardless. Certainly they have their share of supporters. What I'm pointing out is that the parent's "friends who posted non-stop about supporting Palestine" are not (probably not? or hopefully not, at least in their view?) pro-Hamas or pro-genocide. Heck, I imagine they're probably not local Palestinians or in the surveyed population here to begin with. And the rest of the people around the world supporting Palestinians clearly aren't, either. > I agree with you that Hamas and the Palestinians are not one thing That was literally my point.

Hikikomori 8mo ago

Fighting your oppressors is usually popular with the oppressed.

fortzi 8mo ago
Israel was prepared for peace a long time ago. Nowadays Many Israelis are convinced that the Palestinians don’t want peace, but rather a fight to the death. This thwarts any hope of trying for peace again on the Israeli side.

_hf1g 8mo ago

[dead]

thrance 8mo ago

Yes, and if you poll Israelis about their views of Palestinians, you'll find that the majority want to exterminate them all. What does that say about Israel? Fucking nothing except that we shouldn't be funding either of them. And we aren't arming Hamas. What matters is that pro-Palestinians aren't calling for the extermination of Israel, while Zionists are clearly calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. Wanting the war to end does not automatically make you a Hamas terrorist, obviously.

fortzi 8mo ago
I don’t know, these chants of “river to the sea” accompanied by signs with maps of israel fully covered with a Palestinian flag tell me the opposite. > if you poll Israelis about their views of Palestinians, you'll find that the majority want to exterminate them all Can you point me to that poll, or is that just your opinion? > Zionists are clearly calling for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza First of all, you clearly don’t know what Zionism is. Hell, it means different things for different people. Let me help you out: for most Israelis, Zionism is about independence and sovereignty for the jewish people. While there are Israelies who want the Palestinians out, only the crazies are actually considering it as a plausible reality. These crazies gain more political power the more the general population loses its faith the Palestinians are wanting peace, as opposed to fighting to the last man standing. You should read about the Oslo accords and the later failed talks at Camp David. Lastly, wanting to vote for Hamas is absolutely not about wanting the war to end, as Hamas is a perpetrator of it. How did you make this astonishing logical leap?
- dataflow 8mo ago
  >> if you poll Israelis about their views of Palestinians, you'll find that the majority want to exterminate them all > Can you point me to that poll, or is that just your opinion? Not the parent, and not claiming anything about the truth or falsehood of this, but your comment got me to Google it, and this is what I found: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support-expulsion-palestinians-gaza-poll https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/majority-israelis-support... https://www.trtworld.com/article/8802bc2d5043 https://www.trtworld.com/article/8802bc2d5043 Original source appears to be here: https://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/2025-05-22/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/00000196-f3a3-d6d3-ab9e-f3bbf6070000 https://www.haaretz.co.il/magazine/2025-05-22/ty-article-mag... Is this what you were asking for? What do you think of it?