5 ms·

phew, yet another reason it pays off to not be a coffee drinker.

by dylan604 9mo ago

Tempest1981 9mo ago
:) I'm sticking with my Aeropress
- Marsymars 9mo ago
  I'm sitting here drinking an Aeropress-made coffee as I type this, but thinking about how the kettle I used to boil the water is wifi-connected. (Although the smarts are limited to firmware updates, there's no control of the kettle or useful data collected from the kettle.)
  - iamtedd 9mo ago
    A kettle needs firmware updates?
    - dylan604 9mo ago
      A kettle needs firmware?
      - Marsymars 9mo ago
        Some software features are actually quite nice on kettles! e.g. Mine has adjustable altitude calibration which simplifies things that are temperature-sensitive if you live somewhere with a boiling point notably below 100°: https://www.precisekettlepicks.blog/blog/buying-guides-by-use-case-budget/altitude-kettle-science-precise-temp-high/ https://www.precisekettlepicks.blog/blog/buying-guides-by-us...
    - Marsymars 9mo ago
      I'd say "has" firmware updates rather than "needs". You can see release notes: https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929115-What-is-the-current-EKG-firmware-version-and-what-did-it-update https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929...
  - ssl-3 9mo ago
    I understand why such a device might have firmware. For instance: The drip coffee maker in my kitchen also has firmware; it is used for things like operating the clock (which I've never set...), starting automatically at a pre-set time, and for turning the hot bits off after an hour or two. It's completely offline; these are just pre-programmed functions that will never change. But I have some questions, if you've got a moment. Why does the kettle's firmware need updating? What inhibits a future firmware update from controlling the kettle and collecting data? How would you or any other owner of this style of kettle know if it had shifted gears? (And remember: Since the kettle has a radio and a network connection, data collection isn't necessarily limited to kettle operations. Deducing location is easy for a motivated party using wifi and/or bluetooth signals in populated areas where others are using wireless technologies; see, for example: https://www.qualcomm.com/internet-of-things/solutions/qualcomm-terrestrial-positioning-service https://www.qualcomm.com/internet-of-things/solutions/qualco... )
    - Marsymars 9mo ago
      > Why does the kettle's firmware need updating? What inhibits a future firmware update from controlling the kettle and collecting data? How would you or any other owner of this style of kettle know if it had shifted gears? It's a Fellow EKG Pro kettle. They've got release notes here: https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929115-What-is-the-current-EKG-firmware-version-and-what-did-it-update https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929... Notably, bug fixes to the same features that your drip coffee maker has (clock/scheduling stuff stuff), and the addition of new languages to the UI. > What inhibits a future firmware update from controlling the kettle and collecting data? How would you or any other owner of this style of kettle know if it had shifted gears? I assume these are somewhat rhetorical questions where we both know the answers - I'm not harbouring illusions here - as with any internet-connected software you have to trust the vendor. If it were up to me, I'd prefer a Z-Wave-connected kettle that received its firmware updates via Home Assistant... but fancy pour-over kettles are niche enough that a market for a Z-Wave one simply doesn't exist. As-is, I've got enough trust in Fellow that I'm leaving my kettle connected for firmware updates. Of course, that may change.
      - 9mo ago
debugnik 9mo ago
Not really, I'd be impressed if my moka could spy on me, at least after the first use.

phew, yet another reason it pays off to not be a coffee drinker.

Tempest1981 9mo ago

:) I'm sticking with my Aeropress

Marsymars 9mo ago
I'm sitting here drinking an Aeropress-made coffee as I type this, but thinking about how the kettle I used to boil the water is wifi-connected. (Although the smarts are limited to firmware updates, there's no control of the kettle or useful data collected from the kettle.)
- iamtedd 9mo ago
  A kettle needs firmware updates?
  - dylan604 9mo ago
    A kettle needs firmware?
    - Marsymars 9mo ago
      Some software features are actually quite nice on kettles! e.g. Mine has adjustable altitude calibration which simplifies things that are temperature-sensitive if you live somewhere with a boiling point notably below 100°: https://www.precisekettlepicks.blog/blog/buying-guides-by-use-case-budget/altitude-kettle-science-precise-temp-high/ https://www.precisekettlepicks.blog/blog/buying-guides-by-us...
  - Marsymars 9mo ago
    I'd say "has" firmware updates rather than "needs". You can see release notes: https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929115-What-is-the-current-EKG-firmware-version-and-what-did-it-update https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929...
- ssl-3 9mo ago
  I understand why such a device might have firmware. For instance: The drip coffee maker in my kitchen also has firmware; it is used for things like operating the clock (which I've never set...), starting automatically at a pre-set time, and for turning the hot bits off after an hour or two. It's completely offline; these are just pre-programmed functions that will never change. But I have some questions, if you've got a moment. Why does the kettle's firmware need updating? What inhibits a future firmware update from controlling the kettle and collecting data? How would you or any other owner of this style of kettle know if it had shifted gears? (And remember: Since the kettle has a radio and a network connection, data collection isn't necessarily limited to kettle operations. Deducing location is easy for a motivated party using wifi and/or bluetooth signals in populated areas where others are using wireless technologies; see, for example: https://www.qualcomm.com/internet-of-things/solutions/qualcomm-terrestrial-positioning-service https://www.qualcomm.com/internet-of-things/solutions/qualco... )
  - Marsymars 9mo ago
    > Why does the kettle's firmware need updating? What inhibits a future firmware update from controlling the kettle and collecting data? How would you or any other owner of this style of kettle know if it had shifted gears? It's a Fellow EKG Pro kettle. They've got release notes here: https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929115-What-is-the-current-EKG-firmware-version-and-what-did-it-update https://help.fellowproducts.com/hc/en-us/articles/9593179929... Notably, bug fixes to the same features that your drip coffee maker has (clock/scheduling stuff stuff), and the addition of new languages to the UI. > What inhibits a future firmware update from controlling the kettle and collecting data? How would you or any other owner of this style of kettle know if it had shifted gears? I assume these are somewhat rhetorical questions where we both know the answers - I'm not harbouring illusions here - as with any internet-connected software you have to trust the vendor. If it were up to me, I'd prefer a Z-Wave-connected kettle that received its firmware updates via Home Assistant... but fancy pour-over kettles are niche enough that a market for a Z-Wave one simply doesn't exist. As-is, I've got enough trust in Fellow that I'm leaving my kettle connected for firmware updates. Of course, that may change.
    - 9mo ago

debugnik 9mo ago

Not really, I'd be impressed if my moka could spy on me, at least after the first use.