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> with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran As opposed to standing idly by when the regime 'stabilizes' the country by murd

by Wytwwww 7mo ago

> with western countries also openly declaring their intent to destabilize Iran As opposed to standing idly by when the regime 'stabilizes' the country by murdering thousands of people? It's well past the stage where non violent protest or resistance stopped being a viable option..

santoshalper 7mo ago
Not really. We absolutely have the option to let things play out in Iran and refuse to intervene. There are many regimes in Africa that are as bad or worse than Iran. We seem to have little interest in "regime change" there. You should think about why not.
- mupuff1234 7mo ago
  Because those countries are not trying to become a global power, with potential nuclear weapon, ICBM and drone capabilities along with a strategic location? And all while making "death to america" part of their national slogan.
- Wytwwww 7mo ago
  Well it's not black and white. Sometimes doing the right thing even if you have ulterior motives is better than doing nothing. Africa is tricky due to historical reasons, though. Any western power that would intervene there without the explicit invitation of the local government would be accused of neo-colonialism etc.
  - don_esteban 7mo ago
    You know, doing the Syria and Libya (and Iraq and Afghanistan) thing was the 'right thing', right? Do you really believe that after the violent regime change Iran will become the beacon of prosperity in the ME? Yes, I believe if the things are really out of hands (like Khmer rouge in Kambodia), external intervention is warranted. That can be done against small/weak states where the result can be achieved fast and without too much bloodshed (compared to what is already going on), and when agreed on by UN. Will most definitely need boots on the ground. It is an entirely different matter against a 90million vast state like Iran. Note that boots on the ground is not in the cards, and most probably will never be. The approach is 'bomb and hope'. Which guarantees misery and bloodshed of Iranian blood. And if the result is fall of the ayatollah regime, and replaced by nationalists with socialistic tendencies, that would not really cooperate with USA (= sell oil rights and totally dismantle their military) then what? Bomb more? How can you honestly believe this is the best for Iranian people?
- philwelch 7mo ago
  How many of those African regimes sponsor terrorism and piracy against Americans, or adopt “death to America” as a motto?
  - mikkupikku 7mo ago
    Iran occasionally attacks Americans in the region or abroad generally, but they don't attack Americans in America despite all of their "death to America" rhetoric (which they are more than entitled to.) If you add up who's fucking with who and who's being fucked with, the imbalance between America and Iran is enormous.
    - breppp 7mo ago
      recent examples https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/manssor-arbabsiar-sentenced-new-york-city-federal-court-25-years-prison-conspiring-iranian https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/manssor-arbabsiar-se... https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/member-irans-islamic-revolutionary-guard-corps-irgc-charged-plot-murder-former-national https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/member-irans-islamic...
- hunterpayne 7mo ago
  Those African regimes don't spend billions a year to promote and fund terrorism in other countries. Remember kids, you can kill millions of your own people (Stalin, Mao, etc) and nobody will care. Heck, some will even celebrate you. But don't mess with people in another country, otherwise outsiders will get involved. Iran is the main source of violence and terrorism in the most violent part of the world. Maybe, just maybe your fake moralizing isn't helping.
  - mikkupikku 7mo ago
    Iran has committed or contributed to virtually zero terrorism in America. The American people have no legitimate beef with Iran, America is just acting as Israel's rabid attack dog.
    - breppp 7mo ago
      there is quite a beef going on between America and Iran if you haven't noticed, such as taking an entire embassy as hostages or killing a whole lot of US troops in Iraq and Lebanon among other things
      - deleted 7mo ago
        [deleted]
pydry 7mo ago
>As opposed to standing idly by when the regime 'stabilizes' the country by murdering thousands of people? Do you demand an invasion of Israel? Because your moral principles seem to demand an invasion and subjugation of Israel.
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > your moral principles seem to demand an invasion and subjugation of Israel There is absolutely no requirement for consistency in geopolitics. Advocating for a position on e.g. Gaza or Iran isn't undermined because that person isn't expending equal efforts on injustice in another theatre.
  - roughly 7mo ago
    > There is absolutely no requirement for consistency in geopolitics. There is in morality, though. The US is a state, but you are a person.
  - pydry 7mo ago
    If your modus operandi is simply that of a thug then no, there is not.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
justsomehnguy 7mo ago
Dear American, kindly solve your own internal issues first and then - maybe - you can talk on how to "help" some other countries on the literal other side of the world TYM.
- jazz9k 7mo ago
  I'm cool with that. Let them fight their own battles...but also don't ever ask or expect the US to help. The problem with your stance is that too many people want it both ways: They don't want the US to intervene, but then also want support in terms of money and special treatment for people emigrating from these countries (and blame the US for the deaths that occur for a terrible government).
  - don_esteban 7mo ago
    You know, maybe it would be just enough if you do not actively work on making their life miserable (sanctions and inciting instability). There were almost no Syrian refugees before operation Timber-Sycamore. Thank you USA, our dear friend and freedom-sharing soulmate, for unnecessary refugee crisis in Europe (and another one from Ukraine). With friends like that, who needs enemies. Also, as the above two examples (and Biden's Inflation reduction act, and Nuland's 'f*k Europe'), it is not a Trump thing, its USA thing.
  - watwut 7mo ago
    Like USA literally abandomed allies and those who helped it in countries like Afghanistan and Iran. Literally betreyed them and put them in danger. What special treatment are you talking about, really.

by Wytwwww 7mo ago

santoshalper 7mo ago

Not really. We absolutely have the option to let things play out in Iran and refuse to intervene. There are many regimes in Africa that are as bad or worse than Iran. We seem to have little interest in "regime change" there. You should think about why not.

mupuff1234 7mo ago
Because those countries are not trying to become a global power, with potential nuclear weapon, ICBM and drone capabilities along with a strategic location? And all while making "death to america" part of their national slogan.
Wytwwww 7mo ago
Well it's not black and white. Sometimes doing the right thing even if you have ulterior motives is better than doing nothing. Africa is tricky due to historical reasons, though. Any western power that would intervene there without the explicit invitation of the local government would be accused of neo-colonialism etc.
- don_esteban 7mo ago
  You know, doing the Syria and Libya (and Iraq and Afghanistan) thing was the 'right thing', right? Do you really believe that after the violent regime change Iran will become the beacon of prosperity in the ME? Yes, I believe if the things are really out of hands (like Khmer rouge in Kambodia), external intervention is warranted. That can be done against small/weak states where the result can be achieved fast and without too much bloodshed (compared to what is already going on), and when agreed on by UN. Will most definitely need boots on the ground. It is an entirely different matter against a 90million vast state like Iran. Note that boots on the ground is not in the cards, and most probably will never be. The approach is 'bomb and hope'. Which guarantees misery and bloodshed of Iranian blood. And if the result is fall of the ayatollah regime, and replaced by nationalists with socialistic tendencies, that would not really cooperate with USA (= sell oil rights and totally dismantle their military) then what? Bomb more? How can you honestly believe this is the best for Iranian people?
philwelch 7mo ago
How many of those African regimes sponsor terrorism and piracy against Americans, or adopt “death to America” as a motto?
- mikkupikku 7mo ago
  Iran occasionally attacks Americans in the region or abroad generally, but they don't attack Americans in America despite all of their "death to America" rhetoric (which they are more than entitled to.) If you add up who's fucking with who and who's being fucked with, the imbalance between America and Iran is enormous.
  - breppp 7mo ago
    recent examples https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/manssor-arbabsiar-sentenced-new-york-city-federal-court-25-years-prison-conspiring-iranian https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/manssor-arbabsiar-se... https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/member-irans-islamic-revolutionary-guard-corps-irgc-charged-plot-murder-former-national https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/member-irans-islamic...
hunterpayne 7mo ago
Those African regimes don't spend billions a year to promote and fund terrorism in other countries. Remember kids, you can kill millions of your own people (Stalin, Mao, etc) and nobody will care. Heck, some will even celebrate you. But don't mess with people in another country, otherwise outsiders will get involved. Iran is the main source of violence and terrorism in the most violent part of the world. Maybe, just maybe your fake moralizing isn't helping.
- mikkupikku 7mo ago
  Iran has committed or contributed to virtually zero terrorism in America. The American people have no legitimate beef with Iran, America is just acting as Israel's rabid attack dog.
  - breppp 7mo ago
    there is quite a beef going on between America and Iran if you haven't noticed, such as taking an entire embassy as hostages or killing a whole lot of US troops in Iraq and Lebanon among other things
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]

pydry 7mo ago

>As opposed to standing idly by when the regime 'stabilizes' the country by murdering thousands of people? Do you demand an invasion of Israel? Because your moral principles seem to demand an invasion and subjugation of Israel.

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
> your moral principles seem to demand an invasion and subjugation of Israel There is absolutely no requirement for consistency in geopolitics. Advocating for a position on e.g. Gaza or Iran isn't undermined because that person isn't expending equal efforts on injustice in another theatre.
- roughly 7mo ago
  > There is absolutely no requirement for consistency in geopolitics. There is in morality, though. The US is a state, but you are a person.
- pydry 7mo ago
  If your modus operandi is simply that of a thug then no, there is not.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]

justsomehnguy 7mo ago

Dear American, kindly solve your own internal issues first and then - maybe - you can talk on how to "help" some other countries on the literal other side of the world TYM.

jazz9k 7mo ago
I'm cool with that. Let them fight their own battles...but also don't ever ask or expect the US to help. The problem with your stance is that too many people want it both ways: They don't want the US to intervene, but then also want support in terms of money and special treatment for people emigrating from these countries (and blame the US for the deaths that occur for a terrible government).
- don_esteban 7mo ago
  You know, maybe it would be just enough if you do not actively work on making their life miserable (sanctions and inciting instability). There were almost no Syrian refugees before operation Timber-Sycamore. Thank you USA, our dear friend and freedom-sharing soulmate, for unnecessary refugee crisis in Europe (and another one from Ukraine). With friends like that, who needs enemies. Also, as the above two examples (and Biden's Inflation reduction act, and Nuland's 'f*k Europe'), it is not a Trump thing, its USA thing.
- watwut 7mo ago
  Like USA literally abandomed allies and those who helped it in countries like Afghanistan and Iran. Literally betreyed them and put them in danger. What special treatment are you talking about, really.