2 ms·

Why go for long synthetic chains? Methane has good energy density, doesn't demand cryogenics or diffuse through steel, burns very cleanly, and can be used in m

Why go for long synthetic chains? Methane has good energy density, doesn't demand cryogenics or diffuse through steel, burns very cleanly, and can be used in modified gasoline ICEs - without even sacrificing the gasoline fuel capability.

fuzzfactor 8mo ago
Without cryogenics, methane has such low energy density that a low-pressure fuel tank would still have to be as big as a bus for your compact methane-powered vehicle to go as far as you could on a few gallons of gasoline.
- ACCount37 8mo ago
  Why? CNG ICE vehicles exist, especially in parts of the world that have cheap natural gas and expensive gasoline - often as dual fuel retrofits. They have to deal with high pressure tanks, but compared to the woes of hydrogen storage, that's downright benign.
  - fuzzfactor 8mo ago
    Good question. It's just the physical properties of methane. That's why they use high-pressure tanks because with low-pressure gas storage, the tank needs to be bigger than the car. Energy density of methane is still lower than any other hydrocarbons.
    - ACCount37 8mo ago
      Again: current day CNG ICEs don't actually have "fuel tanks bigger than the car".
      - fuzzfactor 8mo ago
        That's because they use high-pressure tanks. Actually higher working presure than regular welders' oxygen tanks. Too bad the higher the pressure, the heavier the tank, especially steel. I had a pretty good job offer from a company that was going to start building CNG tanks out of carbon fiber. This was a few years before the failure of the Titan submersible. CNG has made some progress since then, here's the kind of thing there is now: https://steelheadcomposites.com/sites/default/files/2024-01/CNG-Brochure.pdf https://steelheadcomposites.com/sites/default/files/2024-01/...
        ACCount37 8mo ago
        COPVs are not exactly a new tech. They're just taking a while to proliferate to those lower end applications. Not like it's a necessary thing. CNG conversions were already viable even with 00s steel tanks.
BadBadJellyBean 8mo ago
Isn't the point that it is as simple and convenient as normal gasoline and also that you can use your gasoline car? If you are using gases it is a hassle for everyone and you need a new car or a full retrofit. At some point we have to ask ourself why we would even do that. Is it really worth it compared to just using a battery?

fuzzfactor 8mo ago

Without cryogenics, methane has such low energy density that a low-pressure fuel tank would still have to be as big as a bus for your compact methane-powered vehicle to go as far as you could on a few gallons of gasoline.

ACCount37 8mo ago
Why? CNG ICE vehicles exist, especially in parts of the world that have cheap natural gas and expensive gasoline - often as dual fuel retrofits. They have to deal with high pressure tanks, but compared to the woes of hydrogen storage, that's downright benign.
- fuzzfactor 8mo ago
  Good question. It's just the physical properties of methane. That's why they use high-pressure tanks because with low-pressure gas storage, the tank needs to be bigger than the car. Energy density of methane is still lower than any other hydrocarbons.
  - ACCount37 8mo ago
    Again: current day CNG ICEs don't actually have "fuel tanks bigger than the car".
    - fuzzfactor 8mo ago
      That's because they use high-pressure tanks. Actually higher working presure than regular welders' oxygen tanks. Too bad the higher the pressure, the heavier the tank, especially steel. I had a pretty good job offer from a company that was going to start building CNG tanks out of carbon fiber. This was a few years before the failure of the Titan submersible. CNG has made some progress since then, here's the kind of thing there is now: https://steelheadcomposites.com/sites/default/files/2024-01/CNG-Brochure.pdf https://steelheadcomposites.com/sites/default/files/2024-01/...
      - ACCount37 8mo ago
        COPVs are not exactly a new tech. They're just taking a while to proliferate to those lower end applications. Not like it's a necessary thing. CNG conversions were already viable even with 00s steel tanks.

BadBadJellyBean 8mo ago

Isn't the point that it is as simple and convenient as normal gasoline and also that you can use your gasoline car? If you are using gases it is a hassle for everyone and you need a new car or a full retrofit. At some point we have to ask ourself why we would even do that. Is it really worth it compared to just using a battery?