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How about the many stack overflow users who contribute questions and answers on a regular basis? Are they being ripped off by Jeff and Joel, too? NO. Because St

by readme 14y ago

How about the many stack overflow users who contribute questions and answers on a regular basis? Are they being ripped off by Jeff and Joel, too? NO. Because Stack Overflow provides us with a very valuable platform. By posting our questions and answers, we accrue valuable reputation on the internet. This is proven and true, and the reason careers 2.0 is working out great. Now, if you take a look at the link to the original 99 designs contest, you'll see that the artist who won the contest is now known as "Please_Remove" -- gee, I wonder why? Perhaps because he was able to use 99designs as a conduit for his graphic design career and is now taking on much bigger and better projects? I'm sure after designing such an iconic logo like that, you'll become famous. So, you see. We participate in these crowdsourced sites because there's something in it for all of us. I post on SO, for me. I understand others benefit from my posts, but I'm there for two reasons: demonstrate my knowledge, and sponge up everyone else's knowledge. People working on 99designs might not even be designers yet. But they're getting valuable experience in what clients want, every time they attempt a design, whether they win it or not. The people on 99designs are not people who have their full schedule booked up with work. And ergo, they have taken a radical and brave step to change that. By subjecting their work to the scrutiny of market forces, they will see if they truly have what it takes to swim. You can argue no-spec all you want but the two facts remain that make 99designs 100% legit: * Everyone working there is doing so voluntarily * Everyone shopping there is doing so voluntarily No one is forcing you to do anything, and the people working on 99 designs are clearly benefiting from it if they are worth half their salt as designers.

notatoad 14y ago
Not only do developers get rep for posting answers on SO, it's a good intillectual exercise to challenge ourselves. Knowing something is one thing, being able to explain it coherently is another level of understanding that is very valuable to cultivate. Similarly, posting on 99 designs is a perfectly selfish act. It's a great no-pressure exercise to hone your skills without having to worry about client requirements. I really don't understand why professional designers feel so threatened by spec. 99% of the time, 99 designs is a perfect example of why you should hire a professional designer.
colmvp 14y ago
Oh hey could you code the backend and frontend of my site for free? C'mon, if you do so, you demonstrate your knowledge, you'll get famous, you'll get experience, and hey your schedule isn't booked with work right? C'mon, people answer questions on our site so it's totally the same thing! Collaboration! My company has millions of dollars but yeah we don't have a budget for it. Don't ask me why, just do the work. Wait, you want to get paid for that work? Jeez, you are one entitled person.
- readme 14y ago
  Such a model wouldn't work because the backend and frontend of a site are far much more work than a logo. That isn't to say you couldn't spend an equivalent amount of man-hours designing a logo. But it is to say that the designs on 99designs obviously don't have the same amount of work put into them, otherwise the site would be infeasible. You can argue otherwise, but the fact that there isn't a business for this just like 99designs flourishing is enough proof for me that it won't work. Also, if someone wants to make such a business, I welcome it. Doesn't mean I'll participate.
- woah 14y ago
  I'm a designer, honestly, a logo takes a few hours. If they want 15 variations, extensive input, full service, they're going to have to pay someone local by the hour. Or they can try betting on 99 designs. It helped me hone my skills early on, and the criticism was just as loud back then. I think the complaints have more to do with designers wanting to 'pull the ladder up behind themselves'. EDIT: Forgot to add, 99 Designs does not supply the most important ingredient: judgement. If a client with no design sense uses 99 Designs they will pick a crappy logo, while a professional designer may have been able to steer them in the right direction. Their loss.
  - mnicole 14y ago
    > I'm a designer, honestly, a logo takes a few hours. Please don't state this as fact, it's really dependent on the project, the client and your process.
rolleiflex 14y ago
I am not making the argument that using 99designs is not legal, I'm making the argument that it is not moral. It’s a society’s job to match legality to morality, and just like everyone has different opinions on morality, you’re more than welcome to use as it is legal. If people were forced to work there, it would not be legal. >Now, if you take a look at the link to the original 99 designs contest, you'll see that the artist who won the contest is now known as "Please_Remove" -- gee, I wonder why? Going with your assumption that he or she became famous, why does she want to be not seen anymore at a spec-work site, one would think? It's either because he / she is embarrassed to worked at one time at a spec work site, or that he or she, after gaining experience, understood that spec-work is actually not that good of an idea. Considering the weakness of no-spec organized movement amongst designers, I would say the latter. I also happen to be an active contributor to the Stack Overflow, and I find it very useful. I also contribute. It’s a fair deal. But it’s not spec-work. I have no expectation of compensation. While seemingly similar, it’s stands at a very different place. That said, I agree that 99designs is a good training ground for budding designers, nonetheless it not existing would be an even better one.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  > If people were forced to work there, it would not be legal. Indeed, if people were forced to work anywhere, it would not be legal.
  - readme 14y ago
    Untrue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai
    - pbiggar 14y ago
      Touche! Prison is a special exception to most logical arguments. Indeed, it would be perfectly legal for convicts to be forced to compete in 99designs style competitions too, unless that fails the "cruel and unusual" punishment laws ;)
- readme 14y ago

by readme 14y ago

notatoad 14y ago

Not only do developers get rep for posting answers on SO, it's a good intillectual exercise to challenge ourselves. Knowing something is one thing, being able to explain it coherently is another level of understanding that is very valuable to cultivate. Similarly, posting on 99 designs is a perfectly selfish act. It's a great no-pressure exercise to hone your skills without having to worry about client requirements. I really don't understand why professional designers feel so threatened by spec. 99% of the time, 99 designs is a perfect example of why you should hire a professional designer.

colmvp 14y ago

Oh hey could you code the backend and frontend of my site for free? C'mon, if you do so, you demonstrate your knowledge, you'll get famous, you'll get experience, and hey your schedule isn't booked with work right? C'mon, people answer questions on our site so it's totally the same thing! Collaboration! My company has millions of dollars but yeah we don't have a budget for it. Don't ask me why, just do the work. Wait, you want to get paid for that work? Jeez, you are one entitled person.

readme 14y ago
Such a model wouldn't work because the backend and frontend of a site are far much more work than a logo. That isn't to say you couldn't spend an equivalent amount of man-hours designing a logo. But it is to say that the designs on 99designs obviously don't have the same amount of work put into them, otherwise the site would be infeasible. You can argue otherwise, but the fact that there isn't a business for this just like 99designs flourishing is enough proof for me that it won't work. Also, if someone wants to make such a business, I welcome it. Doesn't mean I'll participate.
woah 14y ago
I'm a designer, honestly, a logo takes a few hours. If they want 15 variations, extensive input, full service, they're going to have to pay someone local by the hour. Or they can try betting on 99 designs. It helped me hone my skills early on, and the criticism was just as loud back then. I think the complaints have more to do with designers wanting to 'pull the ladder up behind themselves'. EDIT: Forgot to add, 99 Designs does not supply the most important ingredient: judgement. If a client with no design sense uses 99 Designs they will pick a crappy logo, while a professional designer may have been able to steer them in the right direction. Their loss.
- mnicole 14y ago
  > I'm a designer, honestly, a logo takes a few hours. Please don't state this as fact, it's really dependent on the project, the client and your process.

rolleiflex 14y ago

I am not making the argument that using 99designs is not legal, I'm making the argument that it is not moral. It’s a society’s job to match legality to morality, and just like everyone has different opinions on morality, you’re more than welcome to use as it is legal. If people were forced to work there, it would not be legal. >Now, if you take a look at the link to the original 99 designs contest, you'll see that the artist who won the contest is now known as "Please_Remove" -- gee, I wonder why? Going with your assumption that he or she became famous, why does she want to be not seen anymore at a spec-work site, one would think? It's either because he / she is embarrassed to worked at one time at a spec work site, or that he or she, after gaining experience, understood that spec-work is actually not that good of an idea. Considering the weakness of no-spec organized movement amongst designers, I would say the latter. I also happen to be an active contributor to the Stack Overflow, and I find it very useful. I also contribute. It’s a fair deal. But it’s not spec-work. I have no expectation of compensation. While seemingly similar, it’s stands at a very different place. That said, I agree that 99designs is a good training ground for budding designers, nonetheless it not existing would be an even better one.

pbiggar 14y ago
> If people were forced to work there, it would not be legal. Indeed, if people were forced to work anywhere, it would not be legal.
- readme 14y ago
  Untrue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai
  - pbiggar 14y ago
    Touche! Prison is a special exception to most logical arguments. Indeed, it would be perfectly legal for convicts to be forced to compete in 99designs style competitions too, unless that fails the "cruel and unusual" punishment laws ;)
readme 14y ago