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> I want a "phone", i.e., small form factor computer, that can run something like NetBSD, or Linux. But I have no intention of using it for commercial transacti

> I want a "phone", i.e., small form factor computer, that can run something like NetBSD, or Linux. But I have no intention of using it for commercial transactions. Mobile banking is not why I want to run a non-corporate OS > I want to use it for recreation, research and experimentation I am a firm believer that phones are personal computers and should have all the end user freedom we have come to expect from personal computers. I am totally behind what your saying. (The amount of irrational anger that wells up in me when I hear someone make the argument that phones are somehow not general purpose personal computers and shouldn't provider their owners software freedom would astound you.) Personally, I opt out of services that require the use of phone "apps" and any potential attestation they provide. Unfortunately, I just offload those needs onto my wife and her iPhone. Want to go to a concert in a TicketMaster venue? You have to have a phone. Pay to park in some places requires a phone. Mobile ordering for some restaurants requires a phone. I don't think it should be this way, but it is. I think we need consumer regulation to insure software freedom on phones and curtail awful user hostile "features" like remote attestation. Until that happens (if it ever does) there is a realpolitik with needing corporate phones for some activities that can't be denied.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
So the world should cared to your needs when literally almost every adult has a phone even in third world countries? Before you say “what about the poor people” in the US at least, even poor people can get a subsidized free phone through the UCF (?) government fund Also see: no I’m not going to waste development time di you can get to a website I develop with JS disabled or so you can use lynx
- kelvinjps10 8mo ago
  Because phones keep tracking us and stealing our attention. And everybody should have the option of open computer systems
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    So exactly how do you think an “open phone” will keep you from being tracked when you are tracked and can be triangulated via cell phone towers?
    - olyjohn 8mo ago
      He's referring to his activity ON THE DEVICE. We know you can't stop the location tracking from the carrier. But that doesn't mean give up on everything else.
      - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
        Worrying about random app tracking you - which is a boogeyman in and of itself on iOS - and nog worrying about the government tracking you is like being concerned about a mosquito bite when you have a bullet hole.
    - deejaaymac 8mo ago
      The faraday bag I keep with me in my backpack!
- EvanAnderson 8mo ago
  > So the world should cared to your needs when literally almost every adult has a phone even in third world countries? The assumption that everyone has a "smart phone" running locked-down Android or iOS is unreasonable. Just as race, sex, religion, national origin, etc, are protected classes, the "phoneless" should be a protected class. Denying people who choose not to use a locked down phone basic interaction with your business should be legally equivalent to posting a "No blacks allowed" sign on your door, and the consequences should be the same. > Also see: no I’m not going to waste development time di you can get to a website I develop with JS disabled or so you can use lynx I don't see what this non-sequitur has to do with the exchange. I didn't bring anything up about Javascript.
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    Oh please, really? As a Black guy whose still living parents grew up in the segregated South. Comparing not being able to use a Linux phone to segregation is really taking it too far. You have not a single clue what it was like growing up in the Jim Crow South. This conversation is officially done.
kelvinjps10 8mo ago
Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website meaning also a open computer too
- JoshTriplett 8mo ago
  > Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website No, unfortunately some things can't be. There are venues that provide tickets exclusively via mobile applications, for instance.
  - colordrops 8mo ago
    Well fuck those venues. It's a small percentage. I've never run into one and I live in LA, a city with hundreds if not thousands of venues. So you only get 98% of the world instead of 100%. That 98% is far more than the the 100% of 10 years ago. Everyone wants perfection when they've already got abundance.
    - EvanAnderson 8mo ago
      It has been reported that Ticketmaster has exclusive agreements with 70-80% of US venues. It's great that you have all the choices you do. For me, in western Ohio, every major venue for hundreds of miles in every direction is an exclusive Ticketmaster venue. You can't gain admittance to any show in those venues without a phone that can run their proprietary app. Ticketmaster is bullshit, for sure, but they're just one example of the problem of being forced to use proprietary user-hostile software.
      - colordrops 8mo ago
        See this is the bullshit I'm taking about. You can print ticketmaster tickets. So much self victimization to avoid using open alternatives.
        JoshTriplett 8mo ago
        > See this is the bullshit I'm taking about. You can print ticketmaster tickets. So much confidence for an incorrect answer. As cited elsewhere in the thread, some venues are "no app, no entry", and do not have paper tickets.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago

So the world should cared to your needs when literally almost every adult has a phone even in third world countries? Before you say “what about the poor people” in the US at least, even poor people can get a subsidized free phone through the UCF (?) government fund Also see: no I’m not going to waste development time di you can get to a website I develop with JS disabled or so you can use lynx

kelvinjps10 8mo ago
Because phones keep tracking us and stealing our attention. And everybody should have the option of open computer systems
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  So exactly how do you think an “open phone” will keep you from being tracked when you are tracked and can be triangulated via cell phone towers?
  - olyjohn 8mo ago
    He's referring to his activity ON THE DEVICE. We know you can't stop the location tracking from the carrier. But that doesn't mean give up on everything else.
    - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
      Worrying about random app tracking you - which is a boogeyman in and of itself on iOS - and nog worrying about the government tracking you is like being concerned about a mosquito bite when you have a bullet hole.
  - deejaaymac 8mo ago
    The faraday bag I keep with me in my backpack!
EvanAnderson 8mo ago
> So the world should cared to your needs when literally almost every adult has a phone even in third world countries? The assumption that everyone has a "smart phone" running locked-down Android or iOS is unreasonable. Just as race, sex, religion, national origin, etc, are protected classes, the "phoneless" should be a protected class. Denying people who choose not to use a locked down phone basic interaction with your business should be legally equivalent to posting a "No blacks allowed" sign on your door, and the consequences should be the same. > Also see: no I’m not going to waste development time di you can get to a website I develop with JS disabled or so you can use lynx I don't see what this non-sequitur has to do with the exchange. I didn't bring anything up about Javascript.
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  Oh please, really? As a Black guy whose still living parents grew up in the segregated South. Comparing not being able to use a Linux phone to segregation is really taking it too far. You have not a single clue what it was like growing up in the Jim Crow South. This conversation is officially done.

kelvinjps10 8mo ago

Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website meaning also a open computer too

JoshTriplett 8mo ago
> Those things that you mentioned you can do it on the website No, unfortunately some things can't be. There are venues that provide tickets exclusively via mobile applications, for instance.
- colordrops 8mo ago
  Well fuck those venues. It's a small percentage. I've never run into one and I live in LA, a city with hundreds if not thousands of venues. So you only get 98% of the world instead of 100%. That 98% is far more than the the 100% of 10 years ago. Everyone wants perfection when they've already got abundance.
  - EvanAnderson 8mo ago
    It has been reported that Ticketmaster has exclusive agreements with 70-80% of US venues. It's great that you have all the choices you do. For me, in western Ohio, every major venue for hundreds of miles in every direction is an exclusive Ticketmaster venue. You can't gain admittance to any show in those venues without a phone that can run their proprietary app. Ticketmaster is bullshit, for sure, but they're just one example of the problem of being forced to use proprietary user-hostile software.
    - colordrops 8mo ago
      See this is the bullshit I'm taking about. You can print ticketmaster tickets. So much self victimization to avoid using open alternatives.
      - JoshTriplett 8mo ago
        > See this is the bullshit I'm taking about. You can print ticketmaster tickets. So much confidence for an incorrect answer. As cited elsewhere in the thread, some venues are "no app, no entry", and do not have paper tickets.