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Countries in Europe (and most of the world) have positive constitutions, which defines what the government "must do" (for its citizens), whilst the USA has a ne

Countries in Europe (and most of the world) have positive constitutions, which defines what the government "must do" (for its citizens), whilst the USA has a negative constitution that defines what the government "cannot do" (against its citizens). What constitutes hate speech is carefully defined in the constitutions of EU countries. Politicians can't just amend or extend the definition at will, except in the UK which has a strange system of laws and not a constitution like you're used to in the USA or in the EU. In Europe we recognize that Hitler came to power by abusing free speech, which is why using the same rhetoric now can land you in trouble with the law. We also recognize that the pen is mightier than the sword and that unfettered speech can be used to persuade groups of people to use violence against other groups of people.

frumplestlatz 8mo ago
Hitler was literally banned from public speaking for two years. The Nazis came to power through widespread normalized political violence, not speech, and banning Hitler from speaking did nothing but further undermine the legitimacy of the government’s mandate to rule.
- RupertSalt 8mo ago
  Joseph Goebbels would have been disappointed to learn that his office was superfluous and irrelevant!
  - mancerayder 8mo ago
    Goebbels and his office represent the direct opposite of freedom of speech, just to counter your Reddit-inspired mic-drop hot take comment.
    - RupertSalt 8mo ago
      The point was how they gained absolute power, and I would also say that there were multiple factors at work, and I doubt that the GP meant that “abusing free speech” was the only method or reason, but was it not a factor at all? There is often so much “not this but that”, folks should consider “both-and”.
      - frumplestlatz 8mo ago
        They gained absolute power through violence. The Nazi party had a private paramilitary wing — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung — and political violence was both common and integral to their rise. When the Enabling Act was deliberated and passed, giving Hitler effectively absolute power, Sturmabteilung paramilitary members were positioned both inside and outside the chamber. That period of history was fraught with political violence enacted by people who claimed a moral imperative to curtail the freedoms of others.
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mancerayder 8mo ago
>In Europe we recognize that Hitler came to power by abusing free speech, I've heard this again and again - no one mentions that the Nazis had roving bands of men intimidating people like a mob, and that Hitler came to power because of a false flag operation that burned the Reichstag. But we should forget the physical threats of the Nazis and focus on thin parallels to their ideas, under the guise 'hate'. When you do that, you end up with people arbitrarily deciding what's hateful and not, depending on their own values. Chants about English culture threatened by Muslims, hate, chants about Israel and Jews dominating the country, not hate (courtesy of UK hate speech protections).

frumplestlatz 8mo ago

Hitler was literally banned from public speaking for two years. The Nazis came to power through widespread normalized political violence, not speech, and banning Hitler from speaking did nothing but further undermine the legitimacy of the government’s mandate to rule.

RupertSalt 8mo ago
Joseph Goebbels would have been disappointed to learn that his office was superfluous and irrelevant!
- mancerayder 8mo ago
  Goebbels and his office represent the direct opposite of freedom of speech, just to counter your Reddit-inspired mic-drop hot take comment.
  - RupertSalt 8mo ago
    The point was how they gained absolute power, and I would also say that there were multiple factors at work, and I doubt that the GP meant that “abusing free speech” was the only method or reason, but was it not a factor at all? There is often so much “not this but that”, folks should consider “both-and”.
    - frumplestlatz 8mo ago
      They gained absolute power through violence. The Nazi party had a private paramilitary wing — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung — and political violence was both common and integral to their rise. When the Enabling Act was deliberated and passed, giving Hitler effectively absolute power, Sturmabteilung paramilitary members were positioned both inside and outside the chamber. That period of history was fraught with political violence enacted by people who claimed a moral imperative to curtail the freedoms of others.
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mancerayder 8mo ago

>In Europe we recognize that Hitler came to power by abusing free speech, I've heard this again and again - no one mentions that the Nazis had roving bands of men intimidating people like a mob, and that Hitler came to power because of a false flag operation that burned the Reichstag. But we should forget the physical threats of the Nazis and focus on thin parallels to their ideas, under the guise 'hate'. When you do that, you end up with people arbitrarily deciding what's hateful and not, depending on their own values. Chants about English culture threatened by Muslims, hate, chants about Israel and Jews dominating the country, not hate (courtesy of UK hate speech protections).