5 ms·

Press freedom !== entirety of freedom of speech European politicians are calling every day to censor social media. People are arrested regularly for social med

Press freedom !== entirety of freedom of speech European politicians are calling every day to censor social media. People are arrested regularly for social media posts. Censorship is absolutely an issue in Europe and it’s only getting worse. I welcome such an attitude as this.

kosinus 8mo ago
There are so so many reasons to get arrested for social media posts that have nothing to do with censorship.
- Argonaut998 8mo ago
  Be that as it may, people are being arrested for expressing wrong think
  - bargainbin 8mo ago
    No, people are being arrested for making malicious communications. They would have suffered the same punishment if they had used email, letter, graffiti on a billboard. You cannot go around threatening to harm people without repercussions.
    - Argonaut998 8mo ago
      Nope. People are certainly being arrested for speech (e.g. opinions) that would be protected by the first amendment in the US. Guising it under a scary sounding law doesn’t change the nature of it.
      - junon 8mo ago
        Examples please.
        enavantguin 8mo ago
        [dead]
        Argonaut998 8mo ago
        [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-tweet-police-acted-unlawfully https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-... [2] https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Scottow-v-CPS-judgment-161220.pdf https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Scottow-... ”Margaret Dodd of one offence of improper use of a public communications network, contrary to section 127(2)(c) of the Communications Act 2003. This provides that a person commits an offence if “for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another [she] … persistently makes use of a public electronic network”.” [3] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/dec/23/uk-police-leaders-non-crime-hate-incidents-scrapped https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/dec/23/uk-police-le... Regarding Graham Linehan who is by far the best example.
        junon 8mo ago
        [1] is illegal Not sure what [2] is about. [3] doesn't appear relevant either.
        Argonaut998 8mo ago
        “Is illegal” Well yes, that’s my point. :) 2. Is a woman being arrested and charged with causing “anxiety” for a series of tweets. 3. Is the same; wrongthink guised as “threats” etc If you just want to defend the censorship as is your right then just say so instead doing the usual: “It’s not happening” “Ok. It’s happening and that’s a good thing” Rigmarole and wasting my time.
      - arrrg 8mo ago
        The people in Europe have a different view of freedom of speech and that’s fine. Not everything that’s a slightly different perspective on freedom of speech and what that entails and includes is tyranny.
        Argonaut998 8mo ago
        I’m European and I do not. France and the UK especially come from the same liberal intellectual root as the USA. What we see today is a bastardisation of these principles in Europe. Only the US was smart enough to canonise it into law.
        mcv 8mo ago
        Yet the US has far worse attacks on free speech. And plenty of European countries also canonised it into law.
        arrrg 8mo ago
        Democracy also includes sometimes things not happening the way you want to … happens to me all the time, too. Obviously free (and not merely democratic societies) need strong protections of minorities and broad freedoms, but I don’t see free speech implementations in Europe broadly infringing on that.
        enavantguin 8mo ago
        [dead]
        suddenlybananas 8mo ago
        So there is censorship, you just think that it is good. That's fine! But you should own the position and justify it on its own terms instead of pretending that it doesn't count as censorship.
        throwaway24778 8mo ago
        Sure but filtering what you say is also a form of censorship. Swinging the term around like it's some form of morality is silly; anyone who isn't for a form of censorship is just a moron and an asshole. Or even worse: a liberal.
      - ben_w 8mo ago
        People are certainly being arrested *in the USA* for speech (e.g. opinions) that are theoretically protected by the first amendment. Unfortunately, last I tried to look this up, I found that there simply do not exist useful and easy to find stats for "malicious communications" in the UK such that stalkers and people making death threats can be separated from mere political correctness. And even with actual death threats, there's stuff like this, where I don't myself have a single sustained state of my own mind about how I would respond to such a tweet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial
        Argonaut998 8mo ago
        It’s bad now and not perfect for sure, but I doubt these instances would be upheld by the higher courts.
        ben_w 8mo ago
        Kinda irrelevant, given that the go-to examples I see on Hacker News of this happening in the EU and UK are either actual death/violence threats etc. (which are also not protected speech in the USA) or also not upheld in higher European courts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...
        dmm 8mo ago
        Incitement is only illegal when "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action".
        ben_w 8mo ago
        And? I didn't say anything about "incitement", I said "actual death/violence threats", because I meant people making actual threats of violence up to and including death, are the actual things tweeted in the most commonly seen examples given on Hacker News (besides the aforementioned "also not upheld" that the commenter I was replying to tried to use to justify when Americans get arrested for tweets).
    - Gareth321 8mo ago
      "Malicious communications" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. This veteran was arrested for retweeting this meme (https://abuwjaawap.cloudimg.io/v7/_lgbtqnation-assets_/assets/2022/09/craig-ladyman-nazi-flag.png?&auto=format&auto=compress&crop=faces&fit=crop&gravity=face&w=790&h=530 https://abuwjaawap.cloudimg.io/v7/_lgbtqnation-assets_/asset...). https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11066477/Veteran-arrested-causing-anxiety-retweeting-meme-swastika-Pride-flags.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11066477/Veteran-ar... He was offered to undergo "re-education." You might not like this meme. You might find it offensive. But should he be arrested by several officers for it? Of course not. This is just one example of many people being being arrested and imprisoned for offending people. It is against the law to offend people in the UK.
      - talideon 8mo ago
        Oh yes, the bastion of truth that is the Daily Mail. Sorry, my eyes just rolled out if my head.
        Gareth321 8mo ago
        The story is widely reported: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-causing-anxiety-with-swastika-pride-flag-post/41887199.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-... https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irishman-arrested-uk-causing-anxiety-27639423 https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irishman-arrested... https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/03/memes-police-matter/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/03/memes-police-matter... https://www.hrla.org.au/uk_man_arrested_for_social_media_meme https://www.hrla.org.au/uk_man_arrested_for_social_media_mem... Is this normally how you evade things which make you uncomfortable? Attacking the source?
        foxglacier 8mo ago
        Just Google it. It's been reported on various news sites. eg: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-causing-anxiety-with-swastika-pride-flag-post/41887199.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-... Maybe it's not on The Guardian or the BBC but it obviously doesn't fit their bias so you may have to accept other sources.
  - matips 8mo ago
    Considering all forms of sharing information as freedom, USA have huge problem with copyrights. Copyright limits people right to speech to protect interest of corporations, same as ban of stalking or slanders limits freedom of speech to protect victims.
boudin 8mo ago
This portal will just contain propaganda to serve the fascist agenda of the current US government. Not saying that things are perfect in Europe but the US talking about freedom and freedom of speech sounds like a joke.
danlitt 8mo ago
The US's low press freedom index is precisely because people are being legally intimidated for wrongthink. It is not limited to the press, either. Mahmoud Khalil (the Palestinian activist detained by ICE on fake immigration charges for his political speech) is a famous example, but there are many. The US's "commitment to free speech" is nowadays not very much more noble than Russia's principled stand against economic sanctions.
- MiiMe19 8mo ago
  If this is a real take you need to rethink your view on the world.
  - danlitt 8mo ago
    Got anything substantive to say?
- suddenlybananas 8mo ago
  Plenty of people in the UK are arrested for wrongthink. You might think that's justified (e.g. because it is hateful) but it is still arresting someone for speech.
  - youngtaff 8mo ago
    Arrested for incitement not wrong think… if they had done the same thing in the street and there was evidence they would have been arrested too
    - suddenlybananas 8mo ago
      Well, there was a labour councillor who said people should have their throats slit on camera in the street, and he was let off.
  - danlitt 8mo ago
    I didn't say that they weren't. Hundreds of people were arrested for opposing the proscription of Palestine Action. The UK's defence of free expression is not great. What I did say is that the US's position is not as a defender of free speech either (and as Russia is not a defender of free trade). They have particular speech they like to promote (the KKK, stormfront) and particular speech they like to suppress (criticism of war crimes, books about being trans). Draw whatever conclusions you like from that.
21asdffdsa12 8mo ago
The worst part is that its "outsourced" to private organizations and NGOs - and thus the state claims its "not state driven" censorship. They want social stability- but have no grasp of the concept of that stability being only a leaky abstraction for situational stability. You can not claim the world is peaceful and utopia is at hand, sitting in a ski chalet in the alps- while the whole mountain slowly comes down with that house on it. Reality cant be reasoned away, the rain will fall, no matter how much laws there are against it.
intended 8mo ago
I think nations should add content moderation as part of mandatory volunteer duties. The online commons and tasks are too complex and absurd, and we have many people who value speech, who would be the ideal people to take on these tasks. Putting their values into action so to speak. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, so the moment people volunteer for this, they will themselves see whether the claims of misinformation and disinformation are overblown, and then vote accordingly. Obviously speech is a super important part of our online lives, and should be treated as such.
- FatCat1979 8mo ago
  The last thing the world needs is a state mandated hoarde of european reddit moderators plaguing the internet. no thanks.
  - intended 8mo ago
    Come now - why should it just be self selected volunteers or outsourced workers. Even now on HN we are lucky with who moderates it but this should be more commmon. And Mandatory service for your own nation. How else will you have a citizenry who can be plugged into their information economy.
mcv 8mo ago
I think people getting arrested for social media posts is specifically a UK thing. That and Russia are the only European countries where I've heard of that happening. In most European countries, you'd have to go pretty far to get in legal trouble for social media posts. It's not impossible, but that's also true in the US. There are and have always been limits to speech. Everywhere. Also in the US (and not just under Trump, although he'd definitely increasing government censorship). * Threats * Blackmail * Libel/slander These are all restricted by law, because they hurt, silence or coerce people. Hate speech does the exact same thing. It's ridiculous to call hate speech protected free speech, while threats and blackmail are not. A far worse attack on free speech is banning or restricting criticism of the government. That is the primary reason for free speech protections, and yet that's the very thing that the current US government is attacking on an unprecedented scale. See for example recent attacks on Jimmy Kimmel and Steven Colbert. That's something that would be unimaginable in many European countries.

kosinus 8mo ago

There are so so many reasons to get arrested for social media posts that have nothing to do with censorship.

Argonaut998 8mo ago
Be that as it may, people are being arrested for expressing wrong think
- bargainbin 8mo ago
  No, people are being arrested for making malicious communications. They would have suffered the same punishment if they had used email, letter, graffiti on a billboard. You cannot go around threatening to harm people without repercussions.
  - Argonaut998 8mo ago
    Nope. People are certainly being arrested for speech (e.g. opinions) that would be protected by the first amendment in the US. Guising it under a scary sounding law doesn’t change the nature of it.
    - junon 8mo ago
      Examples please.
      - enavantguin 8mo ago
        [dead]
      - Argonaut998 8mo ago
        [1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-tweet-police-acted-unlawfully https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/feb/14/transgender-... [2] https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Scottow-v-CPS-judgment-161220.pdf https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Scottow-... ”Margaret Dodd of one offence of improper use of a public communications network, contrary to section 127(2)(c) of the Communications Act 2003. This provides that a person commits an offence if “for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another [she] … persistently makes use of a public electronic network”.” [3] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/dec/23/uk-police-leaders-non-crime-hate-incidents-scrapped https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/dec/23/uk-police-le... Regarding Graham Linehan who is by far the best example.
        junon 8mo ago
        [1] is illegal Not sure what [2] is about. [3] doesn't appear relevant either.
        Argonaut998 8mo ago
        “Is illegal” Well yes, that’s my point. :) 2. Is a woman being arrested and charged with causing “anxiety” for a series of tweets. 3. Is the same; wrongthink guised as “threats” etc If you just want to defend the censorship as is your right then just say so instead doing the usual: “It’s not happening” “Ok. It’s happening and that’s a good thing” Rigmarole and wasting my time.
    - arrrg 8mo ago
      The people in Europe have a different view of freedom of speech and that’s fine. Not everything that’s a slightly different perspective on freedom of speech and what that entails and includes is tyranny.
      - Argonaut998 8mo ago
        I’m European and I do not. France and the UK especially come from the same liberal intellectual root as the USA. What we see today is a bastardisation of these principles in Europe. Only the US was smart enough to canonise it into law.
        mcv 8mo ago
        Yet the US has far worse attacks on free speech. And plenty of European countries also canonised it into law.
        arrrg 8mo ago
        Democracy also includes sometimes things not happening the way you want to … happens to me all the time, too. Obviously free (and not merely democratic societies) need strong protections of minorities and broad freedoms, but I don’t see free speech implementations in Europe broadly infringing on that.
      - enavantguin 8mo ago
        [dead]
      - suddenlybananas 8mo ago
        So there is censorship, you just think that it is good. That's fine! But you should own the position and justify it on its own terms instead of pretending that it doesn't count as censorship.
        throwaway24778 8mo ago
        Sure but filtering what you say is also a form of censorship. Swinging the term around like it's some form of morality is silly; anyone who isn't for a form of censorship is just a moron and an asshole. Or even worse: a liberal.
    - ben_w 8mo ago
      People are certainly being arrested *in the USA* for speech (e.g. opinions) that are theoretically protected by the first amendment. Unfortunately, last I tried to look this up, I found that there simply do not exist useful and easy to find stats for "malicious communications" in the UK such that stalkers and people making death threats can be separated from mere political correctness. And even with actual death threats, there's stuff like this, where I don't myself have a single sustained state of my own mind about how I would respond to such a tweet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_joke_trial
      - Argonaut998 8mo ago
        It’s bad now and not perfect for sure, but I doubt these instances would be upheld by the higher courts.
        ben_w 8mo ago
        Kinda irrelevant, given that the go-to examples I see on Hacker News of this happening in the EU and UK are either actual death/violence threats etc. (which are also not protected speech in the USA) or also not upheld in higher European courts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exceptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_free_speech_exce...
        dmm 8mo ago
        Incitement is only illegal when "directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action".
        ben_w 8mo ago
        And? I didn't say anything about "incitement", I said "actual death/violence threats", because I meant people making actual threats of violence up to and including death, are the actual things tweeted in the most commonly seen examples given on Hacker News (besides the aforementioned "also not upheld" that the commenter I was replying to tried to use to justify when Americans get arrested for tweets).
  - Gareth321 8mo ago
    "Malicious communications" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. This veteran was arrested for retweeting this meme (https://abuwjaawap.cloudimg.io/v7/_lgbtqnation-assets_/assets/2022/09/craig-ladyman-nazi-flag.png?&auto=format&auto=compress&crop=faces&fit=crop&gravity=face&w=790&h=530 https://abuwjaawap.cloudimg.io/v7/_lgbtqnation-assets_/asset...). https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11066477/Veteran-arrested-causing-anxiety-retweeting-meme-swastika-Pride-flags.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11066477/Veteran-ar... He was offered to undergo "re-education." You might not like this meme. You might find it offensive. But should he be arrested by several officers for it? Of course not. This is just one example of many people being being arrested and imprisoned for offending people. It is against the law to offend people in the UK.
    - talideon 8mo ago
      Oh yes, the bastion of truth that is the Daily Mail. Sorry, my eyes just rolled out if my head.
      - Gareth321 8mo ago
        The story is widely reported: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-causing-anxiety-with-swastika-pride-flag-post/41887199.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-... https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irishman-arrested-uk-causing-anxiety-27639423 https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irishman-arrested... https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/03/memes-police-matter/ https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/08/03/memes-police-matter... https://www.hrla.org.au/uk_man_arrested_for_social_media_meme https://www.hrla.org.au/uk_man_arrested_for_social_media_mem... Is this normally how you evade things which make you uncomfortable? Attacking the source?
      - foxglacier 8mo ago
        Just Google it. It's been reported on various news sites. eg: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-causing-anxiety-with-swastika-pride-flag-post/41887199.html https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irishman-arrested-for-... Maybe it's not on The Guardian or the BBC but it obviously doesn't fit their bias so you may have to accept other sources.
- matips 8mo ago
  Considering all forms of sharing information as freedom, USA have huge problem with copyrights. Copyright limits people right to speech to protect interest of corporations, same as ban of stalking or slanders limits freedom of speech to protect victims.

boudin 8mo ago

This portal will just contain propaganda to serve the fascist agenda of the current US government. Not saying that things are perfect in Europe but the US talking about freedom and freedom of speech sounds like a joke.

danlitt 8mo ago

The US's low press freedom index is precisely because people are being legally intimidated for wrongthink. It is not limited to the press, either. Mahmoud Khalil (the Palestinian activist detained by ICE on fake immigration charges for his political speech) is a famous example, but there are many. The US's "commitment to free speech" is nowadays not very much more noble than Russia's principled stand against economic sanctions.

MiiMe19 8mo ago
If this is a real take you need to rethink your view on the world.
- danlitt 8mo ago
  Got anything substantive to say?
suddenlybananas 8mo ago
Plenty of people in the UK are arrested for wrongthink. You might think that's justified (e.g. because it is hateful) but it is still arresting someone for speech.
- youngtaff 8mo ago
  Arrested for incitement not wrong think… if they had done the same thing in the street and there was evidence they would have been arrested too
  - suddenlybananas 8mo ago
    Well, there was a labour councillor who said people should have their throats slit on camera in the street, and he was let off.
- danlitt 8mo ago
  I didn't say that they weren't. Hundreds of people were arrested for opposing the proscription of Palestine Action. The UK's defence of free expression is not great. What I did say is that the US's position is not as a defender of free speech either (and as Russia is not a defender of free trade). They have particular speech they like to promote (the KKK, stormfront) and particular speech they like to suppress (criticism of war crimes, books about being trans). Draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

21asdffdsa12 8mo ago

The worst part is that its "outsourced" to private organizations and NGOs - and thus the state claims its "not state driven" censorship. They want social stability- but have no grasp of the concept of that stability being only a leaky abstraction for situational stability. You can not claim the world is peaceful and utopia is at hand, sitting in a ski chalet in the alps- while the whole mountain slowly comes down with that house on it. Reality cant be reasoned away, the rain will fall, no matter how much laws there are against it.

intended 8mo ago

I think nations should add content moderation as part of mandatory volunteer duties. The online commons and tasks are too complex and absurd, and we have many people who value speech, who would be the ideal people to take on these tasks. Putting their values into action so to speak. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, so the moment people volunteer for this, they will themselves see whether the claims of misinformation and disinformation are overblown, and then vote accordingly. Obviously speech is a super important part of our online lives, and should be treated as such.

FatCat1979 8mo ago
The last thing the world needs is a state mandated hoarde of european reddit moderators plaguing the internet. no thanks.
- intended 8mo ago
  Come now - why should it just be self selected volunteers or outsourced workers. Even now on HN we are lucky with who moderates it but this should be more commmon. And Mandatory service for your own nation. How else will you have a citizenry who can be plugged into their information economy.

mcv 8mo ago

I think people getting arrested for social media posts is specifically a UK thing. That and Russia are the only European countries where I've heard of that happening. In most European countries, you'd have to go pretty far to get in legal trouble for social media posts. It's not impossible, but that's also true in the US. There are and have always been limits to speech. Everywhere. Also in the US (and not just under Trump, although he'd definitely increasing government censorship). * Threats * Blackmail * Libel/slander These are all restricted by law, because they hurt, silence or coerce people. Hate speech does the exact same thing. It's ridiculous to call hate speech protected free speech, while threats and blackmail are not. A far worse attack on free speech is banning or restricting criticism of the government. That is the primary reason for free speech protections, and yet that's the very thing that the current US government is attacking on an unprecedented scale. See for example recent attacks on Jimmy Kimmel and Steven Colbert. That's something that would be unimaginable in many European countries.