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That was a overall very rarely occurring abuse of power of a politician in charge of leading local law enforcement. It was declared illegal later. And you take

by generic92034 8mo ago

That was a overall very rarely occurring abuse of power of a politician in charge of leading local law enforcement. It was declared illegal later. And you take that as a proof for what about the whole of Germany?

raincole 8mo ago
> His unit has successfully prosecuted about 750 hate speech cases over the last four years. It's just one of the sixteen units that prosecute 'hate speech' cases in Germany. Oh, by the way, the Chancellor himself is calling to demolish online anonymity completely: https://dpa-international.com/politics/urn:newsml:dpa.com:20090101:260218-99-569905/ https://dpa-international.com/politics/urn:newsml:dpa.com:20... But sure, abuse of power is so rare. Nothing to see here.
- ben_w 8mo ago
  > > His unit has successfully prosecuted about 750 hate speech cases over the last four years. > But sure, abuse of power is so rare. Nothing to see here. This would make your point if those hate speech cases were all the same as your Andy Grote example. Otherwise it's like pointing at one defendant winning a road traffic law case due to dashcam footage showing the police were making things up, as evidence that all road traffic law prosecutions are abusing power.
- shafyy 8mo ago
  The current chancellor is also a right-conservative jabroni, so don't equate what he demands to what the German people want.
  - rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
    > so don't equate what he demands to what the German people want The German people elected the parliament. The parliament elected Merz. The margin was narrow, but that was the decision.
    - shafyy 8mo ago
      That does not mean that everything the chancellor says or does is something that the majority of the people would stand behind, does it?
Podrod 8mo ago
Not just for Germany but apparently for the entire continent of Europe!
joe_mamba 8mo ago
>It was declared illegal later. You're missing the point. That's exactly how democratic governments cloak fascist behavior everywhere: The punishment IS THE PROCESS. People in Germany (and the UK and other places) have to self censor because they don't want to be visited by the police and then dragged through courts for months/years, even though it eventually gets thrown out and you get to walk away innocent, you still had to suffer the entire prosecution process, which nobody wants to, so they keep their mouth shut. The stress toll of having to go through all that annoying grind through the legal system, even though you did nothing wrong and what the government is doing will be considered illegal, is how the government preemptively keeps people in line. >That was a overall very rarely occurring abuse of power Very rare?! Unless there's direct consequences with actual punishment on government officials for illegally abusing the legal system on citizens just because they hear stuff they don't like, then they will keep throwing prosecutions at innocent people just to keep them in check since currently they have nothing stopping them from this abuse turning from rare to being the norm.
- rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
  > You're missing the point. That's how democratic governments masquerade fascist behavior: The punishment IS THE PROCESS. YES.
- generic92034 8mo ago
  Except for the Grote case you can very well criticize politicians, even in somewhat questionable language without LE raiding your home. That one case was an exception. Just look at any political thread in any social media in German language. There is plenty of criticism or even insults regarding government officials, without them getting raided. It is only extreme cases (often with calls for violence) which trigger LE. So the chilling effect is missing or at least it has little influence.
- proctorg76 8mo ago
  We have a name for this, "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride"

raincole 8mo ago

> His unit has successfully prosecuted about 750 hate speech cases over the last four years. It's just one of the sixteen units that prosecute 'hate speech' cases in Germany. Oh, by the way, the Chancellor himself is calling to demolish online anonymity completely: https://dpa-international.com/politics/urn:newsml:dpa.com:20090101:260218-99-569905/ https://dpa-international.com/politics/urn:newsml:dpa.com:20... But sure, abuse of power is so rare. Nothing to see here.

ben_w 8mo ago
> > His unit has successfully prosecuted about 750 hate speech cases over the last four years. > But sure, abuse of power is so rare. Nothing to see here. This would make your point if those hate speech cases were all the same as your Andy Grote example. Otherwise it's like pointing at one defendant winning a road traffic law case due to dashcam footage showing the police were making things up, as evidence that all road traffic law prosecutions are abusing power.
shafyy 8mo ago
The current chancellor is also a right-conservative jabroni, so don't equate what he demands to what the German people want.
- rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
  > so don't equate what he demands to what the German people want The German people elected the parliament. The parliament elected Merz. The margin was narrow, but that was the decision.
  - shafyy 8mo ago
    That does not mean that everything the chancellor says or does is something that the majority of the people would stand behind, does it?

Podrod 8mo ago

Not just for Germany but apparently for the entire continent of Europe!

joe_mamba 8mo ago

>It was declared illegal later. You're missing the point. That's exactly how democratic governments cloak fascist behavior everywhere: The punishment IS THE PROCESS. People in Germany (and the UK and other places) have to self censor because they don't want to be visited by the police and then dragged through courts for months/years, even though it eventually gets thrown out and you get to walk away innocent, you still had to suffer the entire prosecution process, which nobody wants to, so they keep their mouth shut. The stress toll of having to go through all that annoying grind through the legal system, even though you did nothing wrong and what the government is doing will be considered illegal, is how the government preemptively keeps people in line. >That was a overall very rarely occurring abuse of power Very rare?! Unless there's direct consequences with actual punishment on government officials for illegally abusing the legal system on citizens just because they hear stuff they don't like, then they will keep throwing prosecutions at innocent people just to keep them in check since currently they have nothing stopping them from this abuse turning from rare to being the norm.

rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
> You're missing the point. That's how democratic governments masquerade fascist behavior: The punishment IS THE PROCESS. YES.
generic92034 8mo ago
Except for the Grote case you can very well criticize politicians, even in somewhat questionable language without LE raiding your home. That one case was an exception. Just look at any political thread in any social media in German language. There is plenty of criticism or even insults regarding government officials, without them getting raided. It is only extreme cases (often with calls for violence) which trigger LE. So the chilling effect is missing or at least it has little influence.
proctorg76 8mo ago
We have a name for this, "You can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride"