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Iran in space
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- daeken 14y agoI'm so glad to see Iran doing this. Not because I have any particular affinity for Iran, but because the technology will improve as competition increases and more nations/companies take steps into space. This may be a big step for Iran, but it's an even bigger one for the human race as a whole.
- seivan 14y agoI've seen this too often to ignore, but I have to ask, and I am sorry if it comes across a bit rude. It's just a curios question. Do you mean specie (as opposed as to what you stated: 'race')?
- jeremyswank 14y agocouple of points: in english usage 'human race' generally equates to 'human species' the singular is 'species' with an 's'. if you look it up you will find that 'specie' means something quite different (it has to do with money).
- tjmc 14y agoAre you glad to see North Korea develop its "space program" too? Yes, I know this is HN where discussions about politics are discouraged, but in this case it's bordering on farcical to ignore it. I have a lecturer in fluid mechanics who used to be an engineer on the Indian space program. He interchangeably uses the terms "satellite" and "warhead" when discussing the work he used to do. It may well be that Iran wants to develop orbital launch capability for launching satellites and people into space. But assuming that's the only reason is a little naive.
- eternauta3k 14y agoI like the occasional reminder that Iran has never started a war. And it won't unless it plans to be obliterated, so don't worry about that.
- knowaveragejoe 14y agoThat may be the case, but some of the rhetoric their leadership espouses indicates otherwise.
- mvc 14y agoAs opposed to "keep nothing off the table" America?
- redwood 14y agoIran is in a war with its own citizens and its own women especially.
- user9756 14y agoNot true. Stop lying. Are you eg familiar with the actions taken by the Iranian government which made it possible for people in rural areas to send their daughters to school? Being extremely traditional they were afraid of sending their girls all alone to school. Iran has a very high number of educated women thanks to the policies of the Iranian government. (edit: yes women still have advances to make in rights vis-a-vis men in Iranian society, but you can hardly call that "war" more than a natural struggle for power between the sexes in a society)
- EliRivers 14y ago"natural struggle for power between the sexes" There's nothing natural about such a struggle. It's cultural.
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- dsl 14y agoRegardless of your views on the sanctions themselves, this blog post illustrates how effective the US blockade of technology to Iran really is. The Iranian space program is just starting to reach the level of sophistication of hobbyists in the western world. The post however fails to mention Iran has actually launched a total of 5 satellites, the first two being joint launches with Russia and China.
- guard-of-terra 14y agoYou are plain wrong. Any space program takes years and starts with satellite launches. Look at the Chinese program for example. There is no reason to think US blockade somehow harmed the progress of the program there. And it does not matter much since USSR is known to launch anything they wanted before the modern globalized economics that made blockades possible even existed. Your comment about hobbysts is plain misleading to. How many hobbysts launch pets into suborbital and orbital flights and get those back in one piece? How many hobbysts can launch a satellite, anyway? Using their own rocket? You can pimp SpaceX to defend your misleading statement, but they are not in any sense hobbysts and their work would not be possible without NASA and it took them long years anyway. So please stop disregarding other people's achivements. This is just lame.
- tomjen3 14y agoNo but Copenhagen Suborbitals are hobbiests. And they expect to launch a suborbital rocket with a human onboard. And their combined budget is properly less than what NASA use on toilets.
- arethuza 14y agoNote the "Suborbital" in their name - they aren't trying to go into orbit, but send someone straight up and pretty much straight down again - so similar to Virgin Galactic.
- ryanac 14y agoSome of those "hobbyists" at Copenhagen Suborbitals are former NASA contractors and they have been working on that project since May 2008, so I think his main point still stands. It also looks like they're still doing a lot of testing on active guidance systems, rather than trying to put a human up any time soon. You can see their plans for the rest of this year under Campaigns > 2012 on their main site: http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com http://www.copenhagensuborbitals.com
- batgaijin 14y agoIf Iran is capable of technological progress at this rate, how did Pakistan get a nuke before Iran?
- guard-of-terra 14y agoIs it because Pakistan needed it badly a few decades before Iran felt any need?
- sagarun 14y agoThe Chinese gave them one!
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- eternauta3k 14y agoWho told you Iran is developing a nuke?
- iuguy 14y agoPakistan was originally signed up to a civilian programme, but after war with India and Indian nuclear testing decided they needed nuclear weapons following a predominently second strike doctrine. However, Pakistan's position is that in the event of invasion they will respond immediately with nuclear weapons[1]. They received substantial help from the Chinese, and had nuclear reactors at the time the programme started in the 70s (under the codename Project 706[2]). They're not signed up to the NPT or CTBT either (choosing to sign neither until India do). [1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction#History_of_Pakistan.27s_nuclear_weapons_program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_weapons_of_mass_de... [2] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project-706 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project-706
- InclinedPlane 14y agoPakistan has operated nuclear reactors since the 1950s and they undertook a nuclear weapons development program starting in the 1970s and reaching fruition in the late 80s. They already had plentiful sources of weapons grade Plutonium and through what should properly be called espionage they gained access to advanced technologies in nuclear fuel reprocessing, Uranium isotope separation, and nuclear weapon design.
- benjlang 14y agoGreat to hear. We in Israel are also planning on sending a person to the moon soon: http://www.spaceil.com http://www.spaceil.com Innovation in the Middle East is much needed.
- dchichkov 14y agoI'm surprised, that you are glad to hear, that a country with relatively unstable government is making progress toward having ballistic missile capabilities. Actually scratch that. It is progress toward ICBMs, not just ballistic missiles. Here's a reference to the current state of the program: http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-program http://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/irans-ballistic-missile-... And a bit more recent update: http://www.iranwatch.org/wmd/wmd-iranmissileessay.htm http://www.iranwatch.org/wmd/wmd-iranmissileessay.htm
- benjlang 14y agoYou're right, that is worrisome but I highly doubt it will reach that point. The US and Israel will never allow that to happen. If only the Iranian government cared about its people and making the world a better and more innovative place...
- dchichkov 14y agoWell, one fact to keep in mind - developing capabilities to launch satellites [payload to orbit] is inseparable from capability to launch ICBMs. That's why first sputnik was both, so inspiring and so scary. As to 'never allowing this to happen'. There are no such guaranties. I'd guess, the opposite is true. Technology [and as a result advanced weaponry] is only getting more and more accessible.
- ucee054 14y agoa country with relatively unstable government is making progress toward having ballistic missile capabilities Is unstable a euphemism for bad bad bad or do you actually know a damn thing about Iranian stability? And who is Iran unstable relatively to? Congo? North Korea? Russia under Yeltsin?
- amirex111 14y agoThe reason that Iran has no nukes is by self choice. They have always wanted the Japan model, to reach the technological threshold of having nukes without physically building them. This they reached years ago.
- cstross 14y agoAuthor of blog piece seems to be very confused about how staged rockets work, and appears to think that a two stage rocket is somehow inherently more efficient than a three stage rocket! Which is just plain wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistage_rocket http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multistage_rocket What he might be getting is that, if Iran had stuck a third stage on top of a pre-existing two stage IRBM in order to put a tiny wee satellite into orbit, then it would imply that the rocket in question was borderline-capable and not really amenable to being upgraded further. But the Safir-2 is apparently a 2-stage rocket with the ability to reach orbital velocity, implying that by adding boosters or a third stage to it a much larger payload could be launched.
- mistercow 14y agoI was thinking that might be what he meant, but then he says this: >While a three-stage rocket is simple and is limited on how much of a weight threshold it can lift, the more advanced two-stage can be expanded for larger weights. The first part of that is, I'm pretty sure, the opposite of true. The second part is sort of true, but the "expansion" in question would be... adding a third stage. I think he heard the Geoffrey Forden quote and misunderstood the point, which is admittedly subtle. I think what Forden meant was: "If they need three stages to do just this, then they'll never be able to use this to launch a human, because a four-stage rocket is completely beyond them. But if they can do this with only two stages, they could get a human to space with three stages."
- cstross 14y agoYup, that was my reading, too.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago"Confused" is probably not the correct word here, if this journalist is similar to western journalists then I would expect them not to have any idea how rockets work or even a passing knowledge of physics. Combine that with a language translation stage and well, accuracy is probably not high. The book "Rocket Propulsion Elements" [1] which is pretty much everything known about rockets that isn't classified, is pretty dense for a reason. I certainly don't hold it against the journalists who are trying to do their job as best they can. That said, because launching heavy things into space can also be used to launch heavy things around the globe and into other peoples territory, there are aspects of the technology that are closely watched. One of them is cryogenic turbo pumps. These are pumps which can pump a cryogenic fluid at high pressure and flow rates. Those are an essential part of the space puzzle because once you get a functional cryogenic rocket engine you can add additional engines and fuel at a relatively constant mass/payload ratio. And then that means if you have a payload of mass X, and an orbit of O (or sub-orbit if you're talking ICBM) you can build a delivery system to make that work. Of course other controlled technologies are guidance systems and launch 'racks'. If Iran was looking for something more than a PR ploy I think they should host a middle east space conference with peer reviewed papers. To get to where SpaceX is, and where Iran wants to be, is rocket science but it is also achievable rocket development. Open discussion would lend an air of legitimacy to the research (today most westerners assume its simply a quest for missile technology) and probably advance their programs more effectively. [1] http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Propulsion-Elements-George-Sutton/dp/0470080248/ http://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Propulsion-Elements-George-Sutt...
- nasir 14y agoIt is interesting for me when reading the opinion of others about Iran. As a person who had lived inside and outside Iran long enough, I feel very sceptical about the content of the article. The author's statements are very similar to those of the government authorities where only certain facts are described regardless of the issues. I'm not an expert about space industry but since I am pretty sure that the article is exaggerating heavily about the advancements and they heavily rely on China and Russia. Also the author claims "the sanctions have, like many other local industries, pushed Iran to meet its needs locally and therefore advance quicker than possible if Iran had the easy option of importing everything it needed". Apparently he tries to portray that nothing had happened because of the sanctions but it is apparent that the sanctions has crippled the economy currently and the currency value has reduced by five time. The prices has tripled since 4 month ago and middle class society are getting poorer just because of the nuclear ambitions of the leaders. I should also state that I don't believe Iran is making nuclear weapon nor can I deny it. I think western countries would've had the same policy even if no nuclear activity was there and some other excuse will be used in order to protect Israel. Western media have prepared people so well in case they need to take any action against Iran. Well, I hope that does not happen.
- guard-of-terra 14y ago"The article is exaggerating heavily about the advancements and they heavily rely on China and Russia." I remember how ten years ago you could read the same phrase about Chinese program, and now they are on the providing side already!
- nasir 14y agoI don't deny they are making progress. But thats not as what you think it is!
- antman 14y ago"The prices has tripled since 4 month ago and middle class society are getting poorer just because of the nuclear ambitions of the leaders" The prices have increased because of the imposed sanctions. This is unrelated political pressure.
- amirex111 14y agoThanks user9756 for posting this!