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We already don't. We want the Americans to pack up their bases and fuck off. Ami, go home! They've done enough work to stir up chaos and war all over the planet

We already don't. We want the Americans to pack up their bases and fuck off. Ami, go home! They've done enough work to stir up chaos and war all over the planet in the last 7 decades.

viking123 7mo ago
Yeah they should pack up and leave seriously, go serve Israel and attack Iran, I want no part in that.
frumplestlatz 7mo ago
You’re entirely free — at any time — to leave NATO, develop your own replacement weapons programs, and fully fund your own defense. I suspect most Americans would actually be quite supportive. You’ll just have to figure out how to actually pay for it.
- jjtwixman 7mo ago
  The only country Americans care about is Israel, it doesn't really matter, we get it. We don't care. Please close Ramstein :)
  - frumplestlatz 7mo ago
    Germany is free to exit NATO and close Ramstein. I believe it only requires a 1-2 year notice period. The defense budget required to operate without US assistance is another matter entirely; you’re looking at doubling existing spending, plus hundreds of billions in one-off procurement costs — and that assumes ongoing access to US weapons systems. The US subsidizes the massive weapons development programs you currently rely on; cost sharing agreements and unit purchases do not come close to offsetting the full sunk R&D costs the US covers. Replacing those weapons programs, and the existing US industrial base and supply chain they depend on, would run into the trillions of dollars. Just the R&D portion of the US defense budget is $150B a year — the entire EU’s aggregate defense R&D spending is only ~€15B/year. A truly independent EU that did not depend on the US for its security would be a very different place.
    - jjtwixman 7mo ago
      We have no real aspirations for global hegemon status. Ramstein is for your benefit, really. That is the key difference.
      - frumplestlatz 7mo ago
        You might not, but military deterrence is what keeps those with auch aspirations at bay. If you prefer to be a Russian vassal state, that is a choice.

We already don't. We want the Americans to pack up their bases and fuck off. Ami, go home! They've done enough work to stir up chaos and war all over the planet in the last 7 decades.

viking123 7mo ago

Yeah they should pack up and leave seriously, go serve Israel and attack Iran, I want no part in that.

frumplestlatz 7mo ago

You’re entirely free — at any time — to leave NATO, develop your own replacement weapons programs, and fully fund your own defense. I suspect most Americans would actually be quite supportive. You’ll just have to figure out how to actually pay for it.

jjtwixman 7mo ago
The only country Americans care about is Israel, it doesn't really matter, we get it. We don't care. Please close Ramstein :)
- frumplestlatz 7mo ago
  Germany is free to exit NATO and close Ramstein. I believe it only requires a 1-2 year notice period. The defense budget required to operate without US assistance is another matter entirely; you’re looking at doubling existing spending, plus hundreds of billions in one-off procurement costs — and that assumes ongoing access to US weapons systems. The US subsidizes the massive weapons development programs you currently rely on; cost sharing agreements and unit purchases do not come close to offsetting the full sunk R&D costs the US covers. Replacing those weapons programs, and the existing US industrial base and supply chain they depend on, would run into the trillions of dollars. Just the R&D portion of the US defense budget is $150B a year — the entire EU’s aggregate defense R&D spending is only ~€15B/year. A truly independent EU that did not depend on the US for its security would be a very different place.
  - jjtwixman 7mo ago
    We have no real aspirations for global hegemon status. Ramstein is for your benefit, really. That is the key difference.
    - frumplestlatz 7mo ago
      You might not, but military deterrence is what keeps those with auch aspirations at bay. If you prefer to be a Russian vassal state, that is a choice.