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The article provides absolutely no data to support any claims of a brain drain away from America, towards Europe or anywhere else. You’d think they would have f

by dash2 8mo ago

The article provides absolutely no data to support any claims of a brain drain away from America, towards Europe or anywhere else. You’d think they would have found evidence if there was any. So after reading this, my prior on substantial numbers of researchers moving to Europe has gone down. There is an obvious plausible reason why there might not be much brain drain to Europe: salaries are much lower there, because Europe is poorer. Academics love to believe they don’t care about money, and Guardian readers love to believe that the US is doomed by its moral failings. I’ll believe both those things when I see evidence for them.

frm88 8mo ago
The article provides absolutely no data to support any claims of a brain drain away from America, towards Europe or anywhere else. There are no actual numbers for emigree PhDs. Government losses across all agencies are some 10900 scientists [0] or ~14%. Whether they retire, emigrate or no longer do science doesn't matter for the outcome. [0]https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-has-lost-more-10-000-stem-ph-d-s-trump-took-office https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-has-l...
- dash2 8mo ago
  ... It matters for Europe! Also, do we know they aren't still in the US university system doing science?
pvaldes 8mo ago
> You’d think they would have found evidence if there was any. Maybe somebody closed all public scientific databases, all government science webs, and harassed or fired thousands of scientists. That would explain the lack of public scientific data. > salaries are much lower there, because Europe is poorer. Salaries are just a number and should be always taken in the context of coast of living. Europe is diverse, with poor places and rich places. You can live like a king with a worse salary in many places. In the more expensive ones you will pay more taxes, but receive more services in exchange. You will enjoy 30 days of paid holidays a year, and a very diverse continent to roam free on that time. You will enjoy also universal healthcare, affordable groceries, a near to zero expectation of your children being murdered at the school, and much more options to choose a political party that suits your own interests if you don't like the current situation. Europe has many problems and lots of idiomatic and cultural walls, of course; but at this moment US just looks like a terrible place to live or even visit. The government is purposely doing all that they can to fleece every citizen and burn down the entire place.
- dash2 8mo ago
  Again, do you have any evidence, from any source - European or American, government or other - that academics are moving to Europe from the US in greater numbers than before?

by dash2 8mo ago

frm88 8mo ago

The article provides absolutely no data to support any claims of a brain drain away from America, towards Europe or anywhere else. There are no actual numbers for emigree PhDs. Government losses across all agencies are some 10900 scientists [0] or ~14%. Whether they retire, emigrate or no longer do science doesn't matter for the outcome. [0]https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-has-lost-more-10-000-stem-ph-d-s-trump-took-office https://www.science.org/content/article/u-s-government-has-l...

dash2 8mo ago
... It matters for Europe! Also, do we know they aren't still in the US university system doing science?

pvaldes 8mo ago

> You’d think they would have found evidence if there was any. Maybe somebody closed all public scientific databases, all government science webs, and harassed or fired thousands of scientists. That would explain the lack of public scientific data. > salaries are much lower there, because Europe is poorer. Salaries are just a number and should be always taken in the context of coast of living. Europe is diverse, with poor places and rich places. You can live like a king with a worse salary in many places. In the more expensive ones you will pay more taxes, but receive more services in exchange. You will enjoy 30 days of paid holidays a year, and a very diverse continent to roam free on that time. You will enjoy also universal healthcare, affordable groceries, a near to zero expectation of your children being murdered at the school, and much more options to choose a political party that suits your own interests if you don't like the current situation. Europe has many problems and lots of idiomatic and cultural walls, of course; but at this moment US just looks like a terrible place to live or even visit. The government is purposely doing all that they can to fleece every citizen and burn down the entire place.

dash2 8mo ago
Again, do you have any evidence, from any source - European or American, government or other - that academics are moving to Europe from the US in greater numbers than before?