3 ms·

Soul document? More like ego document. Agents are beginning to look to me like extensions of the operator's ego. I wonder if hundreds of thousands of Walter Mi

Soul document? More like ego document. Agents are beginning to look to me like extensions of the operator's ego. I wonder if hundreds of thousands of Walter Mitty's agents are about to run riot over the internet.

koolba 8mo ago
> More like ego document. This metaphor could go so much further. Split it into separate ego, super ego, and id. The id file should be read only.
- whattheheckheck 8mo ago
  What makes you think the id is read only?
  - koolba 8mo ago
    Because only the creator should be able to instill the core. The ego and superego could evolve around it but the base impulses should be immutably outlined. Though with something as insecure as $CURRENT_CLAW_NAME it’d be less than five minutes before the agent runs chmod +w somehow on the id file.
DavidPiper 8mo ago
I agree with you in concept, but it's still 100% category error to talk like this. AIs don't have souls. They don't have egos. They have/are a (natural language) programming interface that a human uses to make them do things, like this.
- exabrial 8mo ago
  I read this as "ego" being a reflection of the creator, not a property of the llm. Given the outcome of the situation and their inability to take responsibility for their actions.
  - DavidPiper 8mo ago
    Oh I think you're right, thank you for the callout. Sorry for the misread, GP.
- palmotea 8mo ago
  > I agree with you in concept, but it's still 100% category error to talk like this. It's a category error heavily promoted by the makers of these LLMs and their fans. Take an existing word that implies something very advanced (thinking, soul, etc.) and apply it grandiosely to some bit of your product. Then you can confuse people into thinking your product is much more grand and important. It's thinking! It has a soul! It's got the capabilities of a person! It is a a person!
  - _carbyau_ 8mo ago
    It lives in the cloud! .. marketing does what it does.
  - DavidPiper 8mo ago
    Oh, completely. I've started calling people on it in-person and it's been quite interesting to see who understands this immediately with a single prompt (no pun intended), and who is a true believer, as it were.
- Terr_ 8mo ago
  Within the framing that it's all fundamentally a make-document-longer algorithm, I propose "seed document." While there's some metaphor to it, it's the kind behind "seed crystals" for ice and minerals, referring to non-living and mostly-mathematical process. If someone went around talking about how the importance of "Soul Crystals" or "Ego Crystals", they would quite rightly attract a lot of very odd looks, at least here on Earth and not in a Final Fantasy game.
  - DavidPiper 8mo ago
    I quite like seed but for a different reason - if you squint a bit, it looks like a natural evolution of a random number seed. My complaint against seed would be that it still harkens back to a biological process that could be easily and creatively conflated when it's convenient.
    - rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
      > I quite like seed but for a different reason - if you squint a bit, it looks like a natural evolution of a random number seed. Nice!
    - appointment 8mo ago
      Pretty sure the term "seed" for a pRNG initial value is already derived from the same crystal seed analogy...
- 47282847 8mo ago
  > AIs don't have souls. They don't have egos. You could argue the same for humans. Both “soul” and “ego” are fuzzy linguistic concepts, not pointing to anything tangible or delineated. “Don’t create things which are not there” https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/article/what-is-ego https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/article/what-is-ego
ericmcer 8mo ago
It reminds me of people with big trucks or loud cars. Like "look at what I can do" when someone else engineered, designed and manufactured the entire thing and all they did was step on a pedal.

koolba 8mo ago

> More like ego document. This metaphor could go so much further. Split it into separate ego, super ego, and id. The id file should be read only.

whattheheckheck 8mo ago
What makes you think the id is read only?
- koolba 8mo ago
  Because only the creator should be able to instill the core. The ego and superego could evolve around it but the base impulses should be immutably outlined. Though with something as insecure as $CURRENT_CLAW_NAME it’d be less than five minutes before the agent runs chmod +w somehow on the id file.

DavidPiper 8mo ago

I agree with you in concept, but it's still 100% category error to talk like this. AIs don't have souls. They don't have egos. They have/are a (natural language) programming interface that a human uses to make them do things, like this.

exabrial 8mo ago
I read this as "ego" being a reflection of the creator, not a property of the llm. Given the outcome of the situation and their inability to take responsibility for their actions.
- DavidPiper 8mo ago
  Oh I think you're right, thank you for the callout. Sorry for the misread, GP.
palmotea 8mo ago
> I agree with you in concept, but it's still 100% category error to talk like this. It's a category error heavily promoted by the makers of these LLMs and their fans. Take an existing word that implies something very advanced (thinking, soul, etc.) and apply it grandiosely to some bit of your product. Then you can confuse people into thinking your product is much more grand and important. It's thinking! It has a soul! It's got the capabilities of a person! It is a a person!
- _carbyau_ 8mo ago
  It lives in the cloud! .. marketing does what it does.
- DavidPiper 8mo ago
  Oh, completely. I've started calling people on it in-person and it's been quite interesting to see who understands this immediately with a single prompt (no pun intended), and who is a true believer, as it were.
Terr_ 8mo ago
Within the framing that it's all fundamentally a make-document-longer algorithm, I propose "seed document." While there's some metaphor to it, it's the kind behind "seed crystals" for ice and minerals, referring to non-living and mostly-mathematical process. If someone went around talking about how the importance of "Soul Crystals" or "Ego Crystals", they would quite rightly attract a lot of very odd looks, at least here on Earth and not in a Final Fantasy game.
- DavidPiper 8mo ago
  I quite like seed but for a different reason - if you squint a bit, it looks like a natural evolution of a random number seed. My complaint against seed would be that it still harkens back to a biological process that could be easily and creatively conflated when it's convenient.
  - rrr_oh_man 8mo ago
    > I quite like seed but for a different reason - if you squint a bit, it looks like a natural evolution of a random number seed. Nice!
  - appointment 8mo ago
    Pretty sure the term "seed" for a pRNG initial value is already derived from the same crystal seed analogy...
47282847 8mo ago
> AIs don't have souls. They don't have egos. You could argue the same for humans. Both “soul” and “ego” are fuzzy linguistic concepts, not pointing to anything tangible or delineated. “Don’t create things which are not there” https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/article/what-is-ego https://isha.sadhguru.org/en/wisdom/article/what-is-ego

ericmcer 8mo ago

It reminds me of people with big trucks or loud cars. Like "look at what I can do" when someone else engineered, designed and manufactured the entire thing and all they did was step on a pedal.