6 ms·

> If you go to Asia, you shouldn't have any problems. But here in the West where most people are white, and what's portrayed as handsome and sexy in the media,

> If you go to Asia, you shouldn't have any problems. But here in the West where most people are white, and what's portrayed as handsome and sexy in the media, arts, and culturally significant works like movies will predominantly be white people. Actually, if you go to Asia, the same imbalance is found - white men have an amazingly easy time of picking up women there, without even knowing the local language and/or customs. Asian women who have never even left their home countries and can barely speak English see white guys as handsome and sexy. In fact, white guys who couldn't get any action in the West (with white women) find tons of Asian women in Asia who will literally throw themselves at them. This applies to almost all countries in Asia, regardless of wealth - Japan, Korea, China, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. Ever heard of Charisma Man?[0] But can you imagine an Asian guy coming to America and doing the same - not knowing English or anything about American customs but trying to pick up American women? He wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding - he'd be laughed out of the clubs (literally). 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charisma_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charisma_Man

chrischen 14y ago
At least in China, I'd think it has to do more with status than necessarily physical attraction. Plus wasn't there a survey that said Asian women preferred their own race more than any other type of women?
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  > At least in China, I'd think it has to do more with status than necessarily physical attraction. That's entirely possible, but that's why I mentioned the fact that it occurs in all Asian countries, regardless of wealth. Even in Japan, a first world country, you will find this exact same phenomenon. In fact, China's adversarial relationship with the West and general social conservativeness means that it's probably more so in Japan than in China. Either way, it's not just for money (assuming that's what you meant by "status"). > Plus wasn't there a survey that said Asian women preferred their own race more than any other type of women? From this chart[0], it's actually the exact opposite for Asian women in America. Notice how the ratio of Asian men marrying women of other races to Asian women marrying men of other races is lower than for any other race, while the reverse is observed among blacks (black men are much more likely to marry someone of another race than black women): > Gender differences are most pronounced among blacks and Asians. Black men marry someone from a different group twice as often as black women do, while among Asians, the gender pattern is reversed. My personal theory as to why this disparity exists is that Asian physical characteristics are seen as feminine, while African physical characteristics are seen as masculine. So Asian men are seen as effeminate, which reduces their attractiveness to women of any race. Similarly, black women are seen as masculine, which reduces their attractiveness to men of any race. However, there have been some anomalies. For example, through the hallyu and the internet, Korean pop and dramas have gained great popularity amongst a significant number of white, black, and Hispanic women over the last 5-10 years. This has created a lot of non-Asian women with a so-called "Koreaboo"[1] fetish for Asian men. This is largely an illusion though, as the vast majority of Asian men don't look like Rain[2] or Song Seung Heon[3]. 0: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mixedrace.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mix... 1: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=koreaboo http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=koreaboo 2: http://i.imgur.com/0K7JF.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0K7JF.jpg 3: http://i.imgur.com/7oAGm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7oAGm.jpg
  - chrischen 14y ago
    I think the Koreaboo thing largely supports my culture argument for what determines sexual desirability. While most Asian men don't look exactly like those two guys, they certainly are repping the more Asian traits as they do not resemble the traditional Western style of masculinity. I'm sure most white guys in Asia don't look like George Clooney or Brad Pitt either. I also want to point out that the West exports more of its culture out to other countries of the world than do Asian cultures out in the West, so that also creates more desirability for Westerners. My relatives in China know who Tom Cruise, Michael Jackson, and Brad Pitt are, but I doubt anyone in the US knows anyone who's famous only in Asia.
    - w1ntermute 14y ago
      > they certainly are repping the more Asian traits as they do not resemble the traditional Western style of masculinity. I wouldn't say that's true. Rain is a (famous) exception in this regard, but most Korean entertainers get blepharoplasty[0], a surgery that makes Asian eyes look more Western. Moreover, why is it that Korean popular culture has succeeded in such a big way in the West when Japan did not in the 70s/80s, when it was a rising economic star? Well, Japan is a much bigger country and so the entertainment industry is more than content to appeal to only domestic tastes, since they can make a decent living off of that. Even the most rabid Koreaboo would not go for popular Japanese styles in men, such as this[1]. Korea, OTOH, has strived to display more internationally appealing (read: Western) characteristics in their entertainers, because they're a smaller country and the rate of IP infringement is much higher (OTOH, Japan has one of the lowest rates in the world). They need foreign interest in their entertainment industry to turn a decent profit. They initially aimed to have pan-Asian appeal, but that has (luckily, but unintentionally for them) morphed into global appeal. You're absolutely right that Hollywood actors do not represent the average white guy. But I've been to Japan and seen white guys who look nothing like Clooney or Pitt, guys who are total geeks ("Charisma Men"), get treated like royalty by the local women. Could you ever see the reverse happening in the West? No, all those Koreaboos are rudely awakened when they find out that most Asian guys don't look like their favorite Korean drama actor. And the statistics back this up. The export of culture from the West to Asia definitely plays a role in all this, and could very well be the primary reason for this phenomenon. Western views of masculinity and femininity are exported to the rest of the world and shape Asian views of what is attractive in men and women. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_blepharoplasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_blepharoplasty 1: http://i.imgur.com/9Trha.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Trha.jpg

chrischen 14y ago

At least in China, I'd think it has to do more with status than necessarily physical attraction. Plus wasn't there a survey that said Asian women preferred their own race more than any other type of women?

w1ntermute 14y ago
> At least in China, I'd think it has to do more with status than necessarily physical attraction. That's entirely possible, but that's why I mentioned the fact that it occurs in all Asian countries, regardless of wealth. Even in Japan, a first world country, you will find this exact same phenomenon. In fact, China's adversarial relationship with the West and general social conservativeness means that it's probably more so in Japan than in China. Either way, it's not just for money (assuming that's what you meant by "status"). > Plus wasn't there a survey that said Asian women preferred their own race more than any other type of women? From this chart[0], it's actually the exact opposite for Asian women in America. Notice how the ratio of Asian men marrying women of other races to Asian women marrying men of other races is lower than for any other race, while the reverse is observed among blacks (black men are much more likely to marry someone of another race than black women): > Gender differences are most pronounced among blacks and Asians. Black men marry someone from a different group twice as often as black women do, while among Asians, the gender pattern is reversed. My personal theory as to why this disparity exists is that Asian physical characteristics are seen as feminine, while African physical characteristics are seen as masculine. So Asian men are seen as effeminate, which reduces their attractiveness to women of any race. Similarly, black women are seen as masculine, which reduces their attractiveness to men of any race. However, there have been some anomalies. For example, through the hallyu and the internet, Korean pop and dramas have gained great popularity amongst a significant number of white, black, and Hispanic women over the last 5-10 years. This has created a lot of non-Asian women with a so-called "Koreaboo"[1] fetish for Asian men. This is largely an illusion though, as the vast majority of Asian men don't look like Rain[2] or Song Seung Heon[3]. 0: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mixedrace.html http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/29/us/20110130mix... 1: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=koreaboo http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=koreaboo 2: http://i.imgur.com/0K7JF.jpg http://i.imgur.com/0K7JF.jpg 3: http://i.imgur.com/7oAGm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7oAGm.jpg
- chrischen 14y ago
  I think the Koreaboo thing largely supports my culture argument for what determines sexual desirability. While most Asian men don't look exactly like those two guys, they certainly are repping the more Asian traits as they do not resemble the traditional Western style of masculinity. I'm sure most white guys in Asia don't look like George Clooney or Brad Pitt either. I also want to point out that the West exports more of its culture out to other countries of the world than do Asian cultures out in the West, so that also creates more desirability for Westerners. My relatives in China know who Tom Cruise, Michael Jackson, and Brad Pitt are, but I doubt anyone in the US knows anyone who's famous only in Asia.
  - w1ntermute 14y ago
    > they certainly are repping the more Asian traits as they do not resemble the traditional Western style of masculinity. I wouldn't say that's true. Rain is a (famous) exception in this regard, but most Korean entertainers get blepharoplasty[0], a surgery that makes Asian eyes look more Western. Moreover, why is it that Korean popular culture has succeeded in such a big way in the West when Japan did not in the 70s/80s, when it was a rising economic star? Well, Japan is a much bigger country and so the entertainment industry is more than content to appeal to only domestic tastes, since they can make a decent living off of that. Even the most rabid Koreaboo would not go for popular Japanese styles in men, such as this[1]. Korea, OTOH, has strived to display more internationally appealing (read: Western) characteristics in their entertainers, because they're a smaller country and the rate of IP infringement is much higher (OTOH, Japan has one of the lowest rates in the world). They need foreign interest in their entertainment industry to turn a decent profit. They initially aimed to have pan-Asian appeal, but that has (luckily, but unintentionally for them) morphed into global appeal. You're absolutely right that Hollywood actors do not represent the average white guy. But I've been to Japan and seen white guys who look nothing like Clooney or Pitt, guys who are total geeks ("Charisma Men"), get treated like royalty by the local women. Could you ever see the reverse happening in the West? No, all those Koreaboos are rudely awakened when they find out that most Asian guys don't look like their favorite Korean drama actor. And the statistics back this up. The export of culture from the West to Asia definitely plays a role in all this, and could very well be the primary reason for this phenomenon. Western views of masculinity and femininity are exported to the rest of the world and shape Asian views of what is attractive in men and women. 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_blepharoplasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_blepharoplasty 1: http://i.imgur.com/9Trha.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Trha.jpg