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> Almost nobody programs computers in machine language. Mostly, programmers work in high-level programming languages that simplify many aspects of the job. Than

• TurdF3rguson 8mo ago
  Sure but you could be saying that about calculators vs pen and paper math. At some point you will need to abandon this position.
  • gyomu 8mo ago
    I think it’s more like solving a math problem yourself (whether with tools like pen & paper, or a calculator), vs asking an AI agent to solve the problem for you.
    • TurdF3rguson 8mo ago
      Right but only because you've mentally tagged using a calculator with "doing it by yourself" and using AI as "not doing it by yourself". In both cases you are doing it by yourself in one sense and not doing it by yourself in another.
      • coldtea 8mo ago
        In the AI case the "not doing it by yourself" sense is much much much much much much more correct.
  • coldtea 8mo ago
    It's also valid for calculators vs pen and paper math. Calculators make calculation much easier, but people doing math with them lose a sizable part of their mathematic skills. To the point of kids not being able to do a simple addition or multiplication or percentage calculation (never mind division) with a calculator, even when someone used to pen and paper can trivially doing with just their mind.
  • ido 8mo ago
    I think grade school kids learning arithmatics shouldn't use a calculator & highscool pupils/collegue students/junior devs learning to program shouldn't use AI to generate code until they learned how to do it manually for the same reason (the temptation to let the machine do it for you & thus not learn is too great).
  • mmustapic 8mo ago
    Digitally painting an image is completely different from asking an AI to make one. Writing a short story is very different from asking an AI to write it. Same with arithmetics, problem solving, coding.
• jimmaswell 8mo ago
  > Kind of similar to the "listening to audiobooks is reading" crowd. Is this supposed to be an implicit dig at audiobooks? The scientific consensus seems to be that there's no difference to comprehension or retention. https://time.com/5388681/audiobooks-reading-books/ https://time.com/5388681/audiobooks-reading-books/
  • gyomu 8mo ago
    Well, we don’t say that “seeing” a theater play is the same as “reading” a theater play - regardless of comprehension or retention - so why should we say that “listening” to a book is the same as “reading” a book?
    • chrisweekly 8mo ago
      Drawing these distinctions is complicated by multi-modal consumption. As an avid lifelong reader (nearly a book per week for about 50 years) I greatly enjoy reading on my kindle and seamlessly switching to listening while driving or doing the dishes. With most books these days it's probably 80% reading -- but in the past, when I had a long commute, it was closer to 50/50. When discussing a given book with others, it's practically irrelevant whether I read or listened to the audiobook narration. As for theater plays, attending a live performance with actors is fundamentally different from reading the script.
  • atoav 8mo ago
    Yet it is not the same. The person who has read a thousand books is better at reading than the person who instead listened to them.
    • scandox 8mo ago
      Better at reading yes but not necessarily better at comprehension which is what I believe people are getting at in these discussions. I read and listen. Initially my comprehension and memory while listening was inferior, but you can learn the skill of deep concentration on audio (or some may have it natively).
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• xnx 8mo ago
  > Are they doing the same kind of activity? Getting the same kind of cognitive development out of it? Definitely not, but one activity isn't necessarily better than the other. A carpenter and an architect don't do the same activities either.
• vbsd 8mo ago
  Even if we accept this metaphor of English as a programming language, it’s used in a highly unusual way. With regular programming, you have a full specification of the program (the code) and it gets turned into an executable. When you want to change some behavior, you change the code parts that relate to the behavior and the whole thing is compiled again. With agentic programming, there’s no full spec, no “codebase in English”. You write instructions but they are discarded as soon as you close your session, and what’s left is this lower level thing (the code written in a traditional programming language). It’s almost like a difference between declarative and imperative paradigm for the process of creating software.
• StopDisinfo910 8mo ago
  > Are they doing the same kind of activity? Getting the same kind of cognitive development out of it? Who cares as long as the game is good? There is no inherent moral value in the how with artistic creation. What matters is the end result. And if people are happy with what they produce, who am I to judge them? I will happily give my opinion on the game but the act of creation is them. Same with audiobook. You are adding value judgment where there doesn't need to be one. Is the Odyssey less significant because it used to be an oral story?