4 ms·

USA is still one of the top countries for scientists. Just as an example Europe had a few years of exporting the best GLP-1 drugs (finally something in which Eu

USA is still one of the top countries for scientists. Just as an example Europe had a few years of exporting the best GLP-1 drugs (finally something in which Europe was leader in science), Eli Lily quickly took it over. In software San Francisco is still the top for AI research: even when Peter Steinberger didn't know what he will do with OpenClaw, it was clear to him that the only place to move to was USA. Terrence Tao was a good example of what happens when an exceptionally smart person stops getting funded by an American University: not moving to another country, but got VC money and created a new company. USA politics is looked at so closely, because it matters and changes and still more democratic than most countries in the world even though democracy is a mess (as it's supposed to be).

nerevarthelame 8mo ago
Terrence Tao expressed sentiments are at odds with you and which align with the article: > The U.S. used to be sort of the default, the no brainer, option. If you got an offer from a top U.S. university, this was like almost the best thing that could happen to you as an academic ... If it's just a less welcoming, atmosphere for science in general here, the best and brightest may not automatically come to the US as they have for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skWt_PZosik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skWt_PZosik
- xiphias2 8mo ago
  Not really, one is complaining, the other (which the article's title says) is voting with their feet. He could have gone to literally any country/university in the world and he chose not to. Also in the USA you just wait 4 (or 8) years and you have a new president. In many other countries you don't have that luxury.
  - shadowofneptune 8mo ago
    That is also the curse of the US now. If your funding will only last a single presidential term, you can't ensure a livelihood. The instability of US budgeting and the wildly different priorities of incoming presidents is a huge source of uncertainty and cost.
- oytis 8mo ago
  He has a point, but there are no obvious alternatives. It's still a long way towards fascism for USA to actually lose its attractiveness, and it's not that other countries are getting more democratic either
  - tzs 8mo ago
    For mathematics Europe is an obvious alternative. The US and Europe produce about the same level of high level mathematics research per year.
  - adgjlsfhk1 8mo ago
    Canada and EU are currently far more attractive if not getting kidnapped by the government and sent to an El Salvadorian torture camp is a priority for you.
    - oytis 8mo ago
      How many PhDs have been sent to El Salvador? EU doesn't nearly have the career opportunities as the US, even less so for foreigners. Canada might be slightly better, for its proximity to the US and being an English-speaking country
      - direwolf20 8mo ago
        None, because if you have a PhD, you're smart enough not to try it.
        ainch 8mo ago
        It's definitely >0 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts-phd-graduate-b2923946.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
    - tick_tock_tick 8mo ago
      Canada can't even keep their own citizen anyone trying for much of anything comes to the USA same with the EU.
- flawn 8mo ago
  A more lengthy article about his resentment against the government: https://newsletter.ofthebrave.org/p/im-an-award-winning-mathematician https://newsletter.ofthebrave.org/p/im-an-award-winning-math...
testfrequency 8mo ago
I find the Peter mention funny because some of the other reasons he said it made sense to move to SF were that labor laws in Europe wouldn’t allow him to work 6-7 days a week, and he’d have to focus more on safety/responsibility in mind in Europe. He’s moving from London after all, arguably the global AI research hub. (Also likely SA told him the offer was contingent on him relocating)
- xiphias2 8mo ago
  I have never had problem working (and seeing other people work) 6-7 days a week in reality in Europe (even if it was unofficial). But capital structures and politicians are still too close to old European companies from the second world war and don't allow venture capital to florish. It's easier to earn money by winning a fake EU tender and giving back half of the money to a politician than doing something innovative.
- hermanzegerman 8mo ago
  Nobody would stop him from working 6-7 days a week. Only for forcing his employees to do this involuntarily for him.
  - shimman 8mo ago
    Kinda tells you all you need to know about US startup culture.
  - zeroonetwothree 8mo ago
    Pretty sure the US doesn’t allow involuntary servitude.
    - RupertSalt 8mo ago
      The Thirteenth Amendment makes it clear that it is permitted only by exception.
- direwolf20 8mo ago
  There are no work police in Europe who go round every workplace to make you log your hours working and arrest you if it's over 40.
noosphr 8mo ago
>In software San Francisco is still the top for AI research What was the last thing that a major US Lab published? It's all trade secrets. Chinese labs are the only ones publishing results as they happen. The US is in the position it was for semiconductor manufacturing, first it was labs and open science. Then by the 80s fabs started costing millions and universities stopped being able to contribute and nothing got published. Now it's getting to trillions and if Intel goes under there is no one in the US who knows how to make any semiconductor generation newer than 2010.
- tr4477 8mo ago
  >What was the last thing that a major US Lab published? It's all trade secrets. >Chinese labs are the only ones publishing results as they happen. Google published the transformer architecture. Facebook published llama.
  - ausbah 8mo ago
    llama hasn’t had a new version in over a year. off the top of my head there are at least 4 entire new series of Chinese based llms that have been open sourced
  - noosphr 8mo ago
    >Google published the transformer architecture. In 2017. Then sat on it for five years.
hermanzegerman 8mo ago
I'm not sure how making a copycat "me-too" drug, after one was successfully developed shows how innovative a country or company is?
- jimmymcgee73 8mo ago
  You realize semaglutide wasn’t the first GLP-1 right? The first GLP-1 was exenatide, invented in America and released in collaboration with Eli Lilly. In addition tirzepatide and retatrutide are not “just” GLP-1s. You frankly do not know what you are talking about.
tzs 8mo ago
> Just as an example Europe had a few years of exporting the best GLP-1 drugs (finally something in which Europe was leader in science), Eli Lily quickly took it over You make it sound like Europe was not a leader in any area of science until this one thing which they led in for a few years. > Terrence Tao was a good example of what happens when an exceptionally smart person stops getting funded by an American University: not moving to another country, but got VC money and created a new company No, he's an example of what can happen when a Fields medalist gets funding cut. 99% of exceptionally smart university mathematicians and scientists will not be able to get VC money. With the US both cutting research funding and becoming unfriendly to foreign students many future Tao's that would have chosen a US school for grad school will likely look elsewhere.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
jmward01 8mo ago
I fled SF and I know a bunch of similar people. Startups are still founded there for the address, not the local talent pool. The address is there because of inertia, not because of inherent advantage. If I were to create a startup I wouldn't even consider doing it in SF now. It is a waste of money that could be put towards the idea. The US is clearly on an ant-intellectual path. People default to here because of inertia but every attack on immigrants, every high level decision based on quack science and personal gain and every attack on our institutions supporting the development of the next generation is putting inertia elsewhere. It is clear as day that the US is only keeping any kind of advantage right now due to inertia and threat and not innovation and effort.
msy 8mo ago
This is a lagging indicator, it is still one of the top no question, but the point is that is shifting materially.
runako 8mo ago
> even when Peter Steinberger didn't know what he will do with OpenClaw, it was clear to him that the only place to move to was USA We don't know how much OpenAI offered him, but I would bet big that it was enough to get most people to relocate across country lines. [To level-set: we know Meta was offering $100m pay packages to researchers who had not already released something like OpenClaw.]
mmooss 8mo ago
> Terrence Tao was a good example of what happens when an exceptionally smart person stops getting funded by an American University: not moving to another country, but got VC money and created a new company. That is the intent of these government policies: Shift power and resources to powerful, wealthy private individuals (and their companies). Is Tao doing research?
viking123 8mo ago
I have visited USA but I never liked it enough to want to live there due to the culture being too extroverted for me. I moved to Singapore and like it a lot. I don't think USA is a bad place, probably the best for your career but I don't see myself enjoying living there too much, although maybe I am generalizing because I only visited New York and SF.
vortegne 8mo ago
I'm sorry, but LLM startups isn't science, it's the current gold rush. As impactful LLM stuff might or might not be in the future, it's just the current startup cash chase cycle. Dodging work regulations is also not really "attracting talent". SF is an insane bubble and views itself as a much more intelletually important than it actually is.
gunnihinn 8mo ago
> Terrence Tao was a good example of what happens when an exceptionally smart person stops getting funded by an American University: not moving to another country, but got VC money and created a new company. What company did Tao fund with VC money?

nerevarthelame 8mo ago

Terrence Tao expressed sentiments are at odds with you and which align with the article: > The U.S. used to be sort of the default, the no brainer, option. If you got an offer from a top U.S. university, this was like almost the best thing that could happen to you as an academic ... If it's just a less welcoming, atmosphere for science in general here, the best and brightest may not automatically come to the US as they have for decades. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skWt_PZosik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skWt_PZosik

xiphias2 8mo ago
Not really, one is complaining, the other (which the article's title says) is voting with their feet. He could have gone to literally any country/university in the world and he chose not to. Also in the USA you just wait 4 (or 8) years and you have a new president. In many other countries you don't have that luxury.
- shadowofneptune 8mo ago
  That is also the curse of the US now. If your funding will only last a single presidential term, you can't ensure a livelihood. The instability of US budgeting and the wildly different priorities of incoming presidents is a huge source of uncertainty and cost.
oytis 8mo ago
He has a point, but there are no obvious alternatives. It's still a long way towards fascism for USA to actually lose its attractiveness, and it's not that other countries are getting more democratic either
- tzs 8mo ago
  For mathematics Europe is an obvious alternative. The US and Europe produce about the same level of high level mathematics research per year.
- adgjlsfhk1 8mo ago
  Canada and EU are currently far more attractive if not getting kidnapped by the government and sent to an El Salvadorian torture camp is a priority for you.
  - oytis 8mo ago
    How many PhDs have been sent to El Salvador? EU doesn't nearly have the career opportunities as the US, even less so for foreigners. Canada might be slightly better, for its proximity to the US and being an English-speaking country
    - direwolf20 8mo ago
      None, because if you have a PhD, you're smart enough not to try it.
      - ainch 8mo ago
        It's definitely >0 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts-phd-graduate-b2923946.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic...
  - tick_tock_tick 8mo ago
    Canada can't even keep their own citizen anyone trying for much of anything comes to the USA same with the EU.
flawn 8mo ago
A more lengthy article about his resentment against the government: https://newsletter.ofthebrave.org/p/im-an-award-winning-mathematician https://newsletter.ofthebrave.org/p/im-an-award-winning-math...

testfrequency 8mo ago

I find the Peter mention funny because some of the other reasons he said it made sense to move to SF were that labor laws in Europe wouldn’t allow him to work 6-7 days a week, and he’d have to focus more on safety/responsibility in mind in Europe. He’s moving from London after all, arguably the global AI research hub. (Also likely SA told him the offer was contingent on him relocating)

xiphias2 8mo ago
I have never had problem working (and seeing other people work) 6-7 days a week in reality in Europe (even if it was unofficial). But capital structures and politicians are still too close to old European companies from the second world war and don't allow venture capital to florish. It's easier to earn money by winning a fake EU tender and giving back half of the money to a politician than doing something innovative.
hermanzegerman 8mo ago
Nobody would stop him from working 6-7 days a week. Only for forcing his employees to do this involuntarily for him.
- shimman 8mo ago
  Kinda tells you all you need to know about US startup culture.
- zeroonetwothree 8mo ago
  Pretty sure the US doesn’t allow involuntary servitude.
  - RupertSalt 8mo ago
    The Thirteenth Amendment makes it clear that it is permitted only by exception.
direwolf20 8mo ago
There are no work police in Europe who go round every workplace to make you log your hours working and arrest you if it's over 40.

noosphr 8mo ago

>In software San Francisco is still the top for AI research What was the last thing that a major US Lab published? It's all trade secrets. Chinese labs are the only ones publishing results as they happen. The US is in the position it was for semiconductor manufacturing, first it was labs and open science. Then by the 80s fabs started costing millions and universities stopped being able to contribute and nothing got published. Now it's getting to trillions and if Intel goes under there is no one in the US who knows how to make any semiconductor generation newer than 2010.

tr4477 8mo ago
>What was the last thing that a major US Lab published? It's all trade secrets. >Chinese labs are the only ones publishing results as they happen. Google published the transformer architecture. Facebook published llama.
- ausbah 8mo ago
  llama hasn’t had a new version in over a year. off the top of my head there are at least 4 entire new series of Chinese based llms that have been open sourced
- noosphr 8mo ago
  >Google published the transformer architecture. In 2017. Then sat on it for five years.

hermanzegerman 8mo ago

I'm not sure how making a copycat "me-too" drug, after one was successfully developed shows how innovative a country or company is?

jimmymcgee73 8mo ago
You realize semaglutide wasn’t the first GLP-1 right? The first GLP-1 was exenatide, invented in America and released in collaboration with Eli Lilly. In addition tirzepatide and retatrutide are not “just” GLP-1s. You frankly do not know what you are talking about.

tzs 8mo ago

> Just as an example Europe had a few years of exporting the best GLP-1 drugs (finally something in which Europe was leader in science), Eli Lily quickly took it over You make it sound like Europe was not a leader in any area of science until this one thing which they led in for a few years. > Terrence Tao was a good example of what happens when an exceptionally smart person stops getting funded by an American University: not moving to another country, but got VC money and created a new company No, he's an example of what can happen when a Fields medalist gets funding cut. 99% of exceptionally smart university mathematicians and scientists will not be able to get VC money. With the US both cutting research funding and becoming unfriendly to foreign students many future Tao's that would have chosen a US school for grad school will likely look elsewhere.

deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

jmward01 8mo ago

I fled SF and I know a bunch of similar people. Startups are still founded there for the address, not the local talent pool. The address is there because of inertia, not because of inherent advantage. If I were to create a startup I wouldn't even consider doing it in SF now. It is a waste of money that could be put towards the idea. The US is clearly on an ant-intellectual path. People default to here because of inertia but every attack on immigrants, every high level decision based on quack science and personal gain and every attack on our institutions supporting the development of the next generation is putting inertia elsewhere. It is clear as day that the US is only keeping any kind of advantage right now due to inertia and threat and not innovation and effort.

msy 8mo ago

This is a lagging indicator, it is still one of the top no question, but the point is that is shifting materially.

runako 8mo ago

> even when Peter Steinberger didn't know what he will do with OpenClaw, it was clear to him that the only place to move to was USA We don't know how much OpenAI offered him, but I would bet big that it was enough to get most people to relocate across country lines. [To level-set: we know Meta was offering $100m pay packages to researchers who had not already released something like OpenClaw.]

mmooss 8mo ago

> Terrence Tao was a good example of what happens when an exceptionally smart person stops getting funded by an American University: not moving to another country, but got VC money and created a new company. That is the intent of these government policies: Shift power and resources to powerful, wealthy private individuals (and their companies). Is Tao doing research?

viking123 8mo ago

I have visited USA but I never liked it enough to want to live there due to the culture being too extroverted for me. I moved to Singapore and like it a lot. I don't think USA is a bad place, probably the best for your career but I don't see myself enjoying living there too much, although maybe I am generalizing because I only visited New York and SF.

vortegne 8mo ago

I'm sorry, but LLM startups isn't science, it's the current gold rush. As impactful LLM stuff might or might not be in the future, it's just the current startup cash chase cycle. Dodging work regulations is also not really "attracting talent". SF is an insane bubble and views itself as a much more intelletually important than it actually is.

gunnihinn 8mo ago