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Just to be clear, ordering a violent mob thousands strong to march on the capitol and "fight like hell" to interfere with the peaceful transition of power is al

by wk_end 8mo ago

Just to be clear, ordering a violent mob thousands strong to march on the capitol and "fight like hell" to interfere with the peaceful transition of power is also what a real insurrection attempt looks like.

junofan 8mo ago
Innocent until proven guilty.
- wk_end 8mo ago
  Legally, yes. But everything was well-documented and publicized. As sentient creatures we can use our own eyes, ears, and judgement to come to our own conclusions in advance or lieu of a formal court ruling.
  - mjhay 8mo ago
    I suggest you re-read the Constitution. The First Amendment protects people from any negative repercussions whatsoever resulting from their free exercise of certain kinds of speech.
    - jahsome 8mo ago
      This is such an absolutely wild and demonstrably incorrect interpretation, I can only assume it's satire
      - mjhay 8mo ago
        I forgot that satire was dead.
        jahsome 8mo ago
        Or, alternatively, you're just bad at it.
        wk_end 8mo ago
        Poe’s Law. Personally I thought that might be what you were doing, but I wasn’t sure.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
- n1b0m 8mo ago
  According to the bipartisan House select committee that investigated the incident, the attack was the culmination of a plan by Trump to overturn the election. Within 36 hours, five people died: including a police officer who died of a stroke a day after being assaulted by rioters and collapsing at the Capitol. Many people were injured, including 174 police officers. Four officers who responded to the attack died by suicide within seven months. Damage caused by attackers exceeded $2.7 million. It is the only attempted coup d'état directed towards the Federal government in the history of the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack#:~:text=The%2520FBI%2520estimates%25202%252C000%E2%80%932%252C500,Capitol%2520Police%2520officers%2520and%2520journalists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capito...
  - frumplestlatz 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - cthalupa 8mo ago
      If we want to include additional details, perhaps add the ones that explain why she was shot (Violently breaking into an area being secured by capitol police that directly lead to the congresscritters) and not irrelevant ones like her status as a veteran.
      - throwworhtthrow 8mo ago
        After Renee Good was killed, I re-evaluated my opinion on Ashli Babbitt's killing and I have more sympathy for her now.
        cthalupa 8mo ago
        I have some sympathy, but not nearly as much. In one case, we have a person in their home town, caught up in a situation that was not of her own making. Babbitt directly put herself in the situation of traveling to the capital, breaking in to it, ignoring direct and lawful orders from police officers, moving towards people that the police had every reason to believe were likely targets of violence, after once again physically breaking in to an area. They're not really comparable situations, IMO. But I don't like people dying when it is avoidable.
- noboostforyou 8mo ago
  First off, the majority of them were found guilty in court - https://web.archive.org/web/20240108135705/https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0 https://web.archive.org/web/20240108135705/https://www.justi... Also, for the rest of them that accepted a pardon, that also necessities an admission of guilt - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/236/79/#89-90 https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/236/79/#89-90 So yes, they were guilty of insurrection even if they escaped punishment.
frumplestlatz 8mo ago
[flagged]
- plagiarist 8mo ago
  Yeah! Like if we all just agree to pretend the one statement in isolation was the entire event he looks pretty reasonable! Why do people keep pointing out that months of lying about electoral fraud may have encouraged people to take some extreme actions? SMH, that's not what he said on the day! Well, at least not on that day within the few second window of what I'd like you to consider!
- cthalupa 8mo ago
  Have you read or watched/listened to his entire speech? I genuinely do not believe any reasonable human being can look at just the speech in context - much less his statements surrounding it in the months leading up - and argue that he didn't get exactly what he wanted in good faith.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
ninth_ant 8mo ago
As does attempting to manipulate election officials to change the vote outcome. If not for one person rejecting this coercion the coup would have been successful.

by wk_end 8mo ago

junofan 8mo ago

Innocent until proven guilty.

wk_end 8mo ago
Legally, yes. But everything was well-documented and publicized. As sentient creatures we can use our own eyes, ears, and judgement to come to our own conclusions in advance or lieu of a formal court ruling.
- mjhay 8mo ago
  I suggest you re-read the Constitution. The First Amendment protects people from any negative repercussions whatsoever resulting from their free exercise of certain kinds of speech.
  - jahsome 8mo ago
    This is such an absolutely wild and demonstrably incorrect interpretation, I can only assume it's satire
    - mjhay 8mo ago
      I forgot that satire was dead.
      - jahsome 8mo ago
        Or, alternatively, you're just bad at it.
      - wk_end 8mo ago
        Poe’s Law. Personally I thought that might be what you were doing, but I wasn’t sure.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
n1b0m 8mo ago
According to the bipartisan House select committee that investigated the incident, the attack was the culmination of a plan by Trump to overturn the election. Within 36 hours, five people died: including a police officer who died of a stroke a day after being assaulted by rioters and collapsing at the Capitol. Many people were injured, including 174 police officers. Four officers who responded to the attack died by suicide within seven months. Damage caused by attackers exceeded $2.7 million. It is the only attempted coup d'état directed towards the Federal government in the history of the United States. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack#:~:text=The%2520FBI%2520estimates%25202%252C000%E2%80%932%252C500,Capitol%2520Police%2520officers%2520and%2520journalists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capito...
- frumplestlatz 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  - cthalupa 8mo ago
    If we want to include additional details, perhaps add the ones that explain why she was shot (Violently breaking into an area being secured by capitol police that directly lead to the congresscritters) and not irrelevant ones like her status as a veteran.
    - throwworhtthrow 8mo ago
      After Renee Good was killed, I re-evaluated my opinion on Ashli Babbitt's killing and I have more sympathy for her now.
      - cthalupa 8mo ago
        I have some sympathy, but not nearly as much. In one case, we have a person in their home town, caught up in a situation that was not of her own making. Babbitt directly put herself in the situation of traveling to the capital, breaking in to it, ignoring direct and lawful orders from police officers, moving towards people that the police had every reason to believe were likely targets of violence, after once again physically breaking in to an area. They're not really comparable situations, IMO. But I don't like people dying when it is avoidable.
noboostforyou 8mo ago
First off, the majority of them were found guilty in court - https://web.archive.org/web/20240108135705/https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/36-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0 https://web.archive.org/web/20240108135705/https://www.justi... Also, for the rest of them that accepted a pardon, that also necessities an admission of guilt - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/236/79/#89-90 https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/236/79/#89-90 So yes, they were guilty of insurrection even if they escaped punishment.

frumplestlatz 8mo ago

[flagged]

plagiarist 8mo ago
Yeah! Like if we all just agree to pretend the one statement in isolation was the entire event he looks pretty reasonable! Why do people keep pointing out that months of lying about electoral fraud may have encouraged people to take some extreme actions? SMH, that's not what he said on the day! Well, at least not on that day within the few second window of what I'd like you to consider!
cthalupa 8mo ago
Have you read or watched/listened to his entire speech? I genuinely do not believe any reasonable human being can look at just the speech in context - much less his statements surrounding it in the months leading up - and argue that he didn't get exactly what he wanted in good faith.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]

ninth_ant 8mo ago

As does attempting to manipulate election officials to change the vote outcome. If not for one person rejecting this coercion the coup would have been successful.