3 ms·

Ah yes, the 4chan retirement plan. Die of a preventable cause at age 42 while waiting for your captcha.

paulddraper 8mo ago
If you accept that cancer is a death sentence, it’s not absurd to “self fund” your insurance with a nest egg. You can shop around quite a bit for non urgent care, and get good cash discount.
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  How much of a nest egg do you think would let you afford a major operation like heart surgery or cancer care?
  - watwut 8mo ago
    Even a minor one.
  - paulddraper 8mo ago
    Read the qualifier. And heart surgery is ~$60k. [1] That's <36 months of insurance premiums according to the earlier poster. [1] https://cost.sidecarhealth.com/ts/heart-bypass-surgery-cost-by-state https://cost.sidecarhealth.com/ts/heart-bypass-surgery-cost-...
    - mothballed 8mo ago
      It cost $30k for a loved one just to go to the hospital when their heart "felt weird" but absolutely nothing turned out to be wrong and all they did was run a couple quick scans and tests. I do agree with the overall idea of what you're saying that usually the premiums are way more than what you could get care for if you just saved the money, but the numbers on the website seem very wrong. I realize it's a total anecdote but from loved one's bills it is $20-30k just to get in the door and that is if actually nothing is wrong and there is no heart attack yet they're quoting $30k for an actual heart attack care.
      - scottyah 8mo ago
        That's the pricing when you have insurance. It is cheaper if you don't.
        mathgladiator 8mo ago
        This is one of the most insane things that I have realized... I have terrible insurance (in case), but I generally don't present it as it is much cheaper and faster to pay cash... I think we can all agree that the current system is just... ridiculous I used to be fearful of health concerns, but now I'm a carnivore and just feel great.
    - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
      I have never in my 30 year career paid more than $10K a year for health care across 10 jobs and that’s including working at Amazon with their shitty benefit package
      - cm2012 8mo ago
        In my 15 year career, I have never paid less than $10k per year for just me and my wife for health insurance. And I basically try to pick the most sensible and affordable option, not luxury plans.
        raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
        In the last 15 years I’ve worked for: General Electric when it was still a F10 company and more recently Amazon along with a 60 person startup where the family plan was $150 a month. (2018-2020) and two mid size companies in between and now I work for a mid size 1000+ person consulting company And if you want data instead of anecdotes https://www.business.com/articles/health-insurance-costs-this-year/ https://www.business.com/articles/health-insurance-costs-thi...
        cm2012 8mo ago
        Makes sense, I have never worked for a company with more than 200 employees or so. NYC area.
- greedo 8mo ago
  If you accept cancer as a death sentence, you're an idiot. I had cancer at age 41. If I left it untreated, sure I'd be dead, probably by age 43. But I'm not an idiot, I had good health insurance, I was treated, and now that health event is over twenty years in the past. Had I self-funded with a (non-existent) nest egg, I would still be in debt over $600k. Instead, my insurance had to deal with that...
  - mothballed 8mo ago
    600k once in 40 years is cheap compared to the total cost of insurance, especially when you consider the compound interest you could have made on premiums not paid, plus with the freedom to get cancer care cheaper someplace privately outside the US. Your insurance company got the last laugh by a long shot. A typical family on insurance would pay $600,000 (between their take-home and the reduced wages paid by employers to cover insurance) in just 25 years, and that's before considering the opportunity cost of lost investments/yield.
    - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
      Are you really suggesting that a family should not have insurance at all and save the money? I have been working for 30 years and have never once paid more than $10K a year for insurance across 10 jobs 15 of those years were a family plan. Hell one of those jobs was with Amazon - the company with the shittiest benefit package in all of BigTech and even then I only $12K with a family plan. Right now we pay around $10K - my wife myself and my adult but under 26 (step)son
      - mothballed 8mo ago
        You've likely paid at least $18k if not more like $25k for that insurance in the form of wage income moved to benefit income. The government's tax and regulatory environment post WWII just ensures that unless you choose to take it as 1099 income, your potential 1099 income gets reflected in reduced W2 wages that are paid out in benefits. You might claim that if your employer didn't offer that benefit they'd just pay nothing, but required health benefits function much as payroll taxes which economists have showed are largely reflected in the form of reduced incomes. That is, you are paying it ~all one way or another.
- hn_acc1 8mo ago
  What are you smoking? My parents are in their 80s, both 15+ and 20+ years cancer free. At least in my mom's case (colon), not having surgery + chemo probably WOULD have been a death sentence. In Canada, their total out-of-pocket costs (other than transportation to/from the hospital) was like $15 for some painkillers.

If you accept that cancer is a death sentence, it’s not absurd to “self fund” your insurance with a nest egg. You can shop around quite a bit for non urgent care, and get good cash discount.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
How much of a nest egg do you think would let you afford a major operation like heart surgery or cancer care?
- watwut 8mo ago
  Even a minor one.
- paulddraper 8mo ago
  Read the qualifier. And heart surgery is ~$60k. [1] That's <36 months of insurance premiums according to the earlier poster. [1] https://cost.sidecarhealth.com/ts/heart-bypass-surgery-cost-by-state https://cost.sidecarhealth.com/ts/heart-bypass-surgery-cost-...
  - mothballed 8mo ago
    It cost $30k for a loved one just to go to the hospital when their heart "felt weird" but absolutely nothing turned out to be wrong and all they did was run a couple quick scans and tests. I do agree with the overall idea of what you're saying that usually the premiums are way more than what you could get care for if you just saved the money, but the numbers on the website seem very wrong. I realize it's a total anecdote but from loved one's bills it is $20-30k just to get in the door and that is if actually nothing is wrong and there is no heart attack yet they're quoting $30k for an actual heart attack care.
    - scottyah 8mo ago
      That's the pricing when you have insurance. It is cheaper if you don't.
      - mathgladiator 8mo ago
        This is one of the most insane things that I have realized... I have terrible insurance (in case), but I generally don't present it as it is much cheaper and faster to pay cash... I think we can all agree that the current system is just... ridiculous I used to be fearful of health concerns, but now I'm a carnivore and just feel great.
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    I have never in my 30 year career paid more than $10K a year for health care across 10 jobs and that’s including working at Amazon with their shitty benefit package
    - cm2012 8mo ago
      In my 15 year career, I have never paid less than $10k per year for just me and my wife for health insurance. And I basically try to pick the most sensible and affordable option, not luxury plans.
      - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
        In the last 15 years I’ve worked for: General Electric when it was still a F10 company and more recently Amazon along with a 60 person startup where the family plan was $150 a month. (2018-2020) and two mid size companies in between and now I work for a mid size 1000+ person consulting company And if you want data instead of anecdotes https://www.business.com/articles/health-insurance-costs-this-year/ https://www.business.com/articles/health-insurance-costs-thi...
        cm2012 8mo ago
        Makes sense, I have never worked for a company with more than 200 employees or so. NYC area.
greedo 8mo ago
If you accept cancer as a death sentence, you're an idiot. I had cancer at age 41. If I left it untreated, sure I'd be dead, probably by age 43. But I'm not an idiot, I had good health insurance, I was treated, and now that health event is over twenty years in the past. Had I self-funded with a (non-existent) nest egg, I would still be in debt over $600k. Instead, my insurance had to deal with that...
- mothballed 8mo ago
  600k once in 40 years is cheap compared to the total cost of insurance, especially when you consider the compound interest you could have made on premiums not paid, plus with the freedom to get cancer care cheaper someplace privately outside the US. Your insurance company got the last laugh by a long shot. A typical family on insurance would pay $600,000 (between their take-home and the reduced wages paid by employers to cover insurance) in just 25 years, and that's before considering the opportunity cost of lost investments/yield.
  - raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
    Are you really suggesting that a family should not have insurance at all and save the money? I have been working for 30 years and have never once paid more than $10K a year for insurance across 10 jobs 15 of those years were a family plan. Hell one of those jobs was with Amazon - the company with the shittiest benefit package in all of BigTech and even then I only $12K with a family plan. Right now we pay around $10K - my wife myself and my adult but under 26 (step)son
    - mothballed 8mo ago
      You've likely paid at least $18k if not more like $25k for that insurance in the form of wage income moved to benefit income. The government's tax and regulatory environment post WWII just ensures that unless you choose to take it as 1099 income, your potential 1099 income gets reflected in reduced W2 wages that are paid out in benefits. You might claim that if your employer didn't offer that benefit they'd just pay nothing, but required health benefits function much as payroll taxes which economists have showed are largely reflected in the form of reduced incomes. That is, you are paying it ~all one way or another.
hn_acc1 8mo ago
What are you smoking? My parents are in their 80s, both 15+ and 20+ years cancer free. At least in my mom's case (colon), not having surgery + chemo probably WOULD have been a death sentence. In Canada, their total out-of-pocket costs (other than transportation to/from the hospital) was like $15 for some painkillers.