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I think there is a reason why consumer electronics conversations get so heated that is even more important than what you've mentioned: the nature of the product

I think there is a reason why consumer electronics conversations get so heated that is even more important than what you've mentioned: the nature of the products forces us to choose between them. And we spend a decent chunk of money on them. The multiplicity of products that we have to choose between and the lockin we experience once we've made the purchase (we have a contract for the phone and have made significant monetary commitment to the devices in general) mean we have to make a hard decision and then try to feel good about it. Once we've picked, if we admit that another device is better, then we're saying that we made the wrong choice and that we have to live with a subpar device for another few years. Most of us tend to get defensive about our purchases instead, even when we are trying to be objective. The truth is that there are trade offs between all of the devices that are related to our priorities, our personalities, and our social circumstances all of which make us feel personally invested in a gadget decision. This makes it hard for us to come from an objective place to talk about some of our favorite topics. Many of us are looking for validation more than information (I've definitely been guilty of this). The trick, then, might not be to try and be more objective, but to take criticism of the products less personally. Headlines are meant to get clicks, not express thoughtful opinions. The intricacies of the tradeoffs are worth considering, but you won't find them in most tech coverage. Save your hate and try to understand why the competition is valuable to others and what your product could learn from.

mcantelon 14y ago
It's about differing visions of the software industry as well: * Apple's centrally-planned vision of how software should be managed versus Android's more anarchic vision * Apple's leveraging of the software/design patent status quo as a business weapon versus the Android ecosystem's more laissez faire attitude towards the exchange of ideas Whoever eventually wins in the market will set the tone of the software industry.
- lowboy 14y ago
  But a lot of people don't care about that. It's fine to say "I don't buy Apple products because their policies are X, Y, Z". It's not fine to tack on "And you're [insert insult] for not realizing/caring and buying anyway".
  - mcantelon 14y ago
    >But a lot of people don't care about that Not in the general population, but on HN a lot likely do. >It's fine to say "I don't buy Apple products because their policies are X, Y, Z". It's not fine to tack on "And you're [insert insult] for not realizing/caring and buying anyway". Of course.
    - lowboy 14y ago
      I would imagine the audience of HN to care more about larger concerns more so than the general population, but I don't know how much higher those numbers would be. I don't buy Apple products for the very reasons you cite, but there is considerable passionate support and occasional vitriolic ass-hattery for them here on HN.
- krrrh 14y ago
  I think that this perspective certainly has validity. But I've also noticed a tendency towards making it too simple and this can lead to the sort of seeing-your-interlocutor-as-one-dimensional that OP is referring to. When it comes to ceding control of our devices to an authority, the choice hasn't always been between controlled and open, it's between Apple or HTC/Motorola/Samsung/Huawei and the mobile carrier. The situation may be improving, but it's still not great. For a host of reasons, some of them aesthetic and/or idiosyncratic, I'd rather give up a lot of control to Apple, because I know they won't give an inch of it over to Rogers, AT&T, or Verizon. It's true that buying an unsubsidized Google Nexus device sidesteps some of these problems, but large parts of the installed Android ecosystem seem to be more like feudalism than anarchy. Too often I think the people on the Android side of the discussion assume that iOS folks just lack an entire collection of values around openness that they personally consider really important. The reality is that the market is big enough for similar values to be catered to differently. I don't like that I can't delete Newstand.app from my iPhone, but just seeing a pre-installed and undeletable "Rogers Anyplace TV Live" icon on a friend's Android phone makes me die a little inside. A lot of folks don't seem to mind so much. There's no point in trying to convince each other which is worse, it seems mostly dispositional.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
FreeKill 14y ago
I completely agree, you see this a lot with other similar type purchases where a person has to put in research work and it costs them a decent amount of money. Things like purchasing a house or purchasing a car. I think the psyche does a bit of self justification for the purchase which is hard to hold back when someone challenges it. That's just my personal observation anyway...
sixothree 14y ago
And many of us have a lot more than just the purchase price invested in Microsoft. Maybe this is why there is so much contention.

mcantelon 14y ago

It's about differing visions of the software industry as well: * Apple's centrally-planned vision of how software should be managed versus Android's more anarchic vision * Apple's leveraging of the software/design patent status quo as a business weapon versus the Android ecosystem's more laissez faire attitude towards the exchange of ideas Whoever eventually wins in the market will set the tone of the software industry.

lowboy 14y ago
But a lot of people don't care about that. It's fine to say "I don't buy Apple products because their policies are X, Y, Z". It's not fine to tack on "And you're [insert insult] for not realizing/caring and buying anyway".
- mcantelon 14y ago
  >But a lot of people don't care about that Not in the general population, but on HN a lot likely do. >It's fine to say "I don't buy Apple products because their policies are X, Y, Z". It's not fine to tack on "And you're [insert insult] for not realizing/caring and buying anyway". Of course.
  - lowboy 14y ago
    I would imagine the audience of HN to care more about larger concerns more so than the general population, but I don't know how much higher those numbers would be. I don't buy Apple products for the very reasons you cite, but there is considerable passionate support and occasional vitriolic ass-hattery for them here on HN.
krrrh 14y ago
I think that this perspective certainly has validity. But I've also noticed a tendency towards making it too simple and this can lead to the sort of seeing-your-interlocutor-as-one-dimensional that OP is referring to. When it comes to ceding control of our devices to an authority, the choice hasn't always been between controlled and open, it's between Apple or HTC/Motorola/Samsung/Huawei and the mobile carrier. The situation may be improving, but it's still not great. For a host of reasons, some of them aesthetic and/or idiosyncratic, I'd rather give up a lot of control to Apple, because I know they won't give an inch of it over to Rogers, AT&T, or Verizon. It's true that buying an unsubsidized Google Nexus device sidesteps some of these problems, but large parts of the installed Android ecosystem seem to be more like feudalism than anarchy. Too often I think the people on the Android side of the discussion assume that iOS folks just lack an entire collection of values around openness that they personally consider really important. The reality is that the market is big enough for similar values to be catered to differently. I don't like that I can't delete Newstand.app from my iPhone, but just seeing a pre-installed and undeletable "Rogers Anyplace TV Live" icon on a friend's Android phone makes me die a little inside. A lot of folks don't seem to mind so much. There's no point in trying to convince each other which is worse, it seems mostly dispositional.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

FreeKill 14y ago

I completely agree, you see this a lot with other similar type purchases where a person has to put in research work and it costs them a decent amount of money. Things like purchasing a house or purchasing a car. I think the psyche does a bit of self justification for the purchase which is hard to hold back when someone challenges it. That's just my personal observation anyway...

sixothree 14y ago

And many of us have a lot more than just the purchase price invested in Microsoft. Maybe this is why there is so much contention.