4 ms·

>Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even th

>Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even the better off citizens take advantage of in Singapore It's similar in Vienna where only native Viennese are immediately eligible for social housing, but outsiders will end up paying into the system without being eligible.

erichocean 9mo ago
> outsiders will end up paying into the system By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system since they already have a gov't somewhere else that is dedicated to them, just like the Viennese do.
- joe_mamba 9mo ago
  >By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system They absolutely do pay into the system when they move to and work in Vienna. By outsiders in this context I meant foreign workers. I assumed that was clear from the context of the discussion.
  - erichocean 9mo ago
    > I meant foreign workers So did I. Being foreign, they can work at home and not pay into a system they have no part of. Problem solved.
    - joe_mamba 9mo ago
      When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system since you pay income + other taxes, just like the locals, except unlike the locals, you don't get social housing. Unless of course ... your comment was just an anti immigration dogwhsitle from the start, in which case you should just said THAT instead, and not waste people's time with cumbersome allegories masquerading as arguments.
      - erichocean 8mo ago
        > When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system Your entire original complaint was that this doesn't happen. I agree. The difference is I don't think merely moving somewhere should give you political representation there, and the corresponding benefits you would get. You would need to gain citizenship. "Paying taxes" has nothing to do with it. I pay taxes whenever I travel on anything I buy. I pay taxes when I export products. I don't magically get to vote or apply for social housing because of those taxes, because I'm not a citizen. But I do have a place where I am a citizen, and if I'm upset about "my taxes" going to foreign political systems, get this, I can just choose to not pay them. No one is forcing me to travel or work in a foreign country or export products or pay taxes to people who don't represent me politically. --- As to "anti-immigrant", my position is straightforward: citizens of Country A should not be treated as if they were citizens of Country B merely by voluntarily "paying taxes" to Country B, for goods, labor, visas, exports, or any other reason. They must actually be a citizen of a country to get the benefit of being a citizen of that country. This is a rule that applies to every country and all people, whether an immigrant or not: you get the benefits of citizenship when you are a citizen, and not a day before. That's pro-citizenship, not anti-immigrant. Hope that helps.
zorked 9mo ago
This is a common arrangement in Europe. Ex-Europe foreigners contribute to, for example, unemployment insurance, but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed. They still have to contribute though.
- joe_mamba 9mo ago
  >but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed Not true for unemployment. Your unemployment benefits is based on how many years you contributed into the system, just as the locals.

erichocean 9mo ago

> outsiders will end up paying into the system By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system since they already have a gov't somewhere else that is dedicated to them, just like the Viennese do.

joe_mamba 9mo ago
>By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system They absolutely do pay into the system when they move to and work in Vienna. By outsiders in this context I meant foreign workers. I assumed that was clear from the context of the discussion.
- erichocean 9mo ago
  > I meant foreign workers So did I. Being foreign, they can work at home and not pay into a system they have no part of. Problem solved.
  - joe_mamba 9mo ago
    When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system since you pay income + other taxes, just like the locals, except unlike the locals, you don't get social housing. Unless of course ... your comment was just an anti immigration dogwhsitle from the start, in which case you should just said THAT instead, and not waste people's time with cumbersome allegories masquerading as arguments.
    - erichocean 8mo ago
      > When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system Your entire original complaint was that this doesn't happen. I agree. The difference is I don't think merely moving somewhere should give you political representation there, and the corresponding benefits you would get. You would need to gain citizenship. "Paying taxes" has nothing to do with it. I pay taxes whenever I travel on anything I buy. I pay taxes when I export products. I don't magically get to vote or apply for social housing because of those taxes, because I'm not a citizen. But I do have a place where I am a citizen, and if I'm upset about "my taxes" going to foreign political systems, get this, I can just choose to not pay them. No one is forcing me to travel or work in a foreign country or export products or pay taxes to people who don't represent me politically. --- As to "anti-immigrant", my position is straightforward: citizens of Country A should not be treated as if they were citizens of Country B merely by voluntarily "paying taxes" to Country B, for goods, labor, visas, exports, or any other reason. They must actually be a citizen of a country to get the benefit of being a citizen of that country. This is a rule that applies to every country and all people, whether an immigrant or not: you get the benefits of citizenship when you are a citizen, and not a day before. That's pro-citizenship, not anti-immigrant. Hope that helps.

zorked 9mo ago

This is a common arrangement in Europe. Ex-Europe foreigners contribute to, for example, unemployment insurance, but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed. They still have to contribute though.

joe_mamba 9mo ago
>but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed Not true for unemployment. Your unemployment benefits is based on how many years you contributed into the system, just as the locals.