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Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even the

Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even the better off citizens take advantage of in Singapore (maybe even disproportionately so since there can be a long wait to get in, you are older and more settled at that point). Immigrants that get milked dry and go broke and jobless during a shock are booted from the country before they can be polled. ------ re: below due to throttling ------------- Vs say US, where immigrants and those funding public housing are generally better off than the people getting subsidized housing. Public housing is more a progressive than regressive tax in the US, so quite dissimilar. Immigrants in US are on average far better off than those on public housing. Asking "but how is this any different" (after I already answered it, lol) over and over doesn't negate this, nor the fact that immigrants are like half of workers in Singapore vs only 10% in the US so the funding dynamic and dependency is far different.

dangus 8mo ago
That sounds quite similar to the US.
joe_mamba 8mo ago
>Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even the better off citizens take advantage of in Singapore It's similar in Vienna where only native Viennese are immediately eligible for social housing, but outsiders will end up paying into the system without being eligible.
- erichocean 8mo ago
  > outsiders will end up paying into the system By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system since they already have a gov't somewhere else that is dedicated to them, just like the Viennese do.
  - joe_mamba 8mo ago
    >By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system They absolutely do pay into the system when they move to and work in Vienna. By outsiders in this context I meant foreign workers. I assumed that was clear from the context of the discussion.
    - erichocean 8mo ago
      > I meant foreign workers So did I. Being foreign, they can work at home and not pay into a system they have no part of. Problem solved.
      - joe_mamba 8mo ago
        When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system since you pay income + other taxes, just like the locals, except unlike the locals, you don't get social housing. Unless of course ... your comment was just an anti immigration dogwhsitle from the start, in which case you should just said THAT instead, and not waste people's time with cumbersome allegories masquerading as arguments.
        erichocean 8mo ago
        > When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system Your entire original complaint was that this doesn't happen. I agree. The difference is I don't think merely moving somewhere should give you political representation there, and the corresponding benefits you would get. You would need to gain citizenship. "Paying taxes" has nothing to do with it. I pay taxes whenever I travel on anything I buy. I pay taxes when I export products. I don't magically get to vote or apply for social housing because of those taxes, because I'm not a citizen. But I do have a place where I am a citizen, and if I'm upset about "my taxes" going to foreign political systems, get this, I can just choose to not pay them. No one is forcing me to travel or work in a foreign country or export products or pay taxes to people who don't represent me politically. --- As to "anti-immigrant", my position is straightforward: citizens of Country A should not be treated as if they were citizens of Country B merely by voluntarily "paying taxes" to Country B, for goods, labor, visas, exports, or any other reason. They must actually be a citizen of a country to get the benefit of being a citizen of that country. This is a rule that applies to every country and all people, whether an immigrant or not: you get the benefits of citizenship when you are a citizen, and not a day before. That's pro-citizenship, not anti-immigrant. Hope that helps.
- zorked 8mo ago
  This is a common arrangement in Europe. Ex-Europe foreigners contribute to, for example, unemployment insurance, but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed. They still have to contribute though.
  - joe_mamba 8mo ago
    >but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed Not true for unemployment. Your unemployment benefits is based on how many years you contributed into the system, just as the locals.
eunos 8mo ago
I think you can buy if youre PR and married (or old enough). If you are lucky you can receive your PR in 1 year.
- kccqzy 8mo ago
  The Singapore PR system is purposefully racist. If you are white, your probability of getting a PR and citizenship is way lower than someone of the Chinese race. The government does not want significant changes to the country’s racial composition.
finolex1 8mo ago
How is that different from the US? Immigrants also get booted here if they lose their job. They also pay social security, Medicare, and other taxes but usually don't get the benefits unless they stay here for long enough and get a green card.
- paxys 8mo ago
  The difference is the number. Workers on temporary visas make up ~1% of the labor force in the US. And a large chunk of them will eventually get citizenship or permanent residency and qualify for benefits later in life. Countries like Singapore and all of the Middle East meanwhile rely on a revolving door of cheap immigrant labor. In the extreme cases like Qatar 95% of the working population are on short term visas. Most of these countries don't have a pathway to citizenship at all for this worker class. You could live there, work and pay taxes for 10 or 20 or 50 years, but the day you "retire" you need to pack up and leave.
  - temp8830 8mo ago
    The US also has a huge pool of undocumented immigrants who don't get any benefits, don't pay into the social security system, and can be paid below minimum wage (because officially they don't exist). Any time this labor supply is threatened, the construction and agriculture industries rise up (and probably sponsor all those massive protests you see in the news).
    - u8vov8 8mo ago
      No one is paying protesters, people like us in Minneapolis actually do organically hate the current regime and its apologists (you?) that much.
    - u8vov8 8mo ago
      And undocumented immigrants pay around 25 billion dollars annually into social security
    - janalsncm 8mo ago
      > probably sponsor all those massive protests you see in the news Most Americans do not need to be paid to dislike fascism.
exidy 8mo ago
> Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing Singapore has about 1.5 million foreign workers[0] of the population of 6.1 million or just under 25%. Of that 1.5 million, 75% are WP holders who pay no tax and have housing provided as a condition of their employment. Why would you expect social housing to be provided for them? Only about 5-6% of the population are on EPs and SPs. They are definitely vulnerable during a downturn, but they are professionals and they know the rules coming in. At least while they're here they enjoy low tax rates and don't have to contribute to CPF. If they fell into the expat trap of living the high life and didn't save, that's on them. [0] https://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-workforce-numbers https://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-workforce-numbers

dangus 8mo ago

That sounds quite similar to the US.

joe_mamba 8mo ago

>Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing which even the better off citizens take advantage of in Singapore It's similar in Vienna where only native Viennese are immediately eligible for social housing, but outsiders will end up paying into the system without being eligible.

erichocean 8mo ago
> outsiders will end up paying into the system By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system since they already have a gov't somewhere else that is dedicated to them, just like the Viennese do.
- joe_mamba 8mo ago
  >By definition, outsiders don't have to pay into the system They absolutely do pay into the system when they move to and work in Vienna. By outsiders in this context I meant foreign workers. I assumed that was clear from the context of the discussion.
  - erichocean 8mo ago
    > I meant foreign workers So did I. Being foreign, they can work at home and not pay into a system they have no part of. Problem solved.
    - joe_mamba 8mo ago
      When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system since you pay income + other taxes, just like the locals, except unlike the locals, you don't get social housing. Unless of course ... your comment was just an anti immigration dogwhsitle from the start, in which case you should just said THAT instead, and not waste people's time with cumbersome allegories masquerading as arguments.
      - erichocean 8mo ago
        > When you move to live and work in Vienna you become part of the system Your entire original complaint was that this doesn't happen. I agree. The difference is I don't think merely moving somewhere should give you political representation there, and the corresponding benefits you would get. You would need to gain citizenship. "Paying taxes" has nothing to do with it. I pay taxes whenever I travel on anything I buy. I pay taxes when I export products. I don't magically get to vote or apply for social housing because of those taxes, because I'm not a citizen. But I do have a place where I am a citizen, and if I'm upset about "my taxes" going to foreign political systems, get this, I can just choose to not pay them. No one is forcing me to travel or work in a foreign country or export products or pay taxes to people who don't represent me politically. --- As to "anti-immigrant", my position is straightforward: citizens of Country A should not be treated as if they were citizens of Country B merely by voluntarily "paying taxes" to Country B, for goods, labor, visas, exports, or any other reason. They must actually be a citizen of a country to get the benefit of being a citizen of that country. This is a rule that applies to every country and all people, whether an immigrant or not: you get the benefits of citizenship when you are a citizen, and not a day before. That's pro-citizenship, not anti-immigrant. Hope that helps.
zorked 8mo ago
This is a common arrangement in Europe. Ex-Europe foreigners contribute to, for example, unemployment insurance, but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed. They still have to contribute though.
- joe_mamba 8mo ago
  >but are generally not able to use it because they get their work licenses revoked if they become unemployed Not true for unemployment. Your unemployment benefits is based on how many years you contributed into the system, just as the locals.

eunos 8mo ago

I think you can buy if youre PR and married (or old enough). If you are lucky you can receive your PR in 1 year.

kccqzy 8mo ago
The Singapore PR system is purposefully racist. If you are white, your probability of getting a PR and citizenship is way lower than someone of the Chinese race. The government does not want significant changes to the country’s racial composition.

finolex1 8mo ago

How is that different from the US? Immigrants also get booted here if they lose their job. They also pay social security, Medicare, and other taxes but usually don't get the benefits unless they stay here for long enough and get a green card.

paxys 8mo ago
The difference is the number. Workers on temporary visas make up ~1% of the labor force in the US. And a large chunk of them will eventually get citizenship or permanent residency and qualify for benefits later in life. Countries like Singapore and all of the Middle East meanwhile rely on a revolving door of cheap immigrant labor. In the extreme cases like Qatar 95% of the working population are on short term visas. Most of these countries don't have a pathway to citizenship at all for this worker class. You could live there, work and pay taxes for 10 or 20 or 50 years, but the day you "retire" you need to pack up and leave.
- temp8830 8mo ago
  The US also has a huge pool of undocumented immigrants who don't get any benefits, don't pay into the social security system, and can be paid below minimum wage (because officially they don't exist). Any time this labor supply is threatened, the construction and agriculture industries rise up (and probably sponsor all those massive protests you see in the news).
  - u8vov8 8mo ago
    No one is paying protesters, people like us in Minneapolis actually do organically hate the current regime and its apologists (you?) that much.
  - u8vov8 8mo ago
    And undocumented immigrants pay around 25 billion dollars annually into social security
  - janalsncm 8mo ago
    > probably sponsor all those massive protests you see in the news Most Americans do not need to be paid to dislike fascism.

exidy 8mo ago

> Singapore has a regressive shock absorber model where something like half the country are immigrants that are ineligible for, say, public housing Singapore has about 1.5 million foreign workers[0] of the population of 6.1 million or just under 25%. Of that 1.5 million, 75% are WP holders who pay no tax and have housing provided as a condition of their employment. Why would you expect social housing to be provided for them? Only about 5-6% of the population are on EPs and SPs. They are definitely vulnerable during a downturn, but they are professionals and they know the rules coming in. At least while they're here they enjoy low tax rates and don't have to contribute to CPF. If they fell into the expat trap of living the high life and didn't save, that's on them. [0] https://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-workforce-numbers https://www.mom.gov.sg/foreign-workforce-numbers