4 ms·

What law is actually being broken in Brazil? Are MMO’s illegal in Brazil? Is PlayStation Plus illegal in Brazil? Is Spotify, Apple Music, etc etc etc also ille

by nerdjon 8mo ago

What law is actually being broken in Brazil? Are MMO’s illegal in Brazil? Is PlayStation Plus illegal in Brazil? Is Spotify, Apple Music, etc etc etc also illegal in Brazil? It would be ridiculous to argue that I could pay for a subscription to World of Warcraft and make my own third party client to play the game with. (Obviously you are free to argue it all you want but I would be very surprised if this was actually illegal). > And in many cases like Claude Code and the Anthropic models, they can and do work perfectly independently. Unless I am mistaken Claude Code does not have a local model built into it, so it requires a server side component to work? As far as the Anthropic models, yes like many other services they ALSO have a public API that is separate from the subscription that you are paying for. The critical difference here being that in the subscription it is very clear that you are paying for “Claude Code” which is a combination of an application and a server side component. It makes no claims about API usage as part of your subscription, again the technical implementation of the service you are actually paying for “Claude Code” is irrelevant. When it comes to “Claude Code” for all that we should care about, again given that “Claude Code” is what you are paying for, they could be sending the information to Gemini or or a human looks at it. Because it’s irrelevant to the end user when it comes to the technical implementation since you are not being granted access to any other parts of the system directly.

rglullis 8mo ago
> What law is actually being broken in Brazil? "Tie-in sale": the business practice where a seller conditions the sale of one product (the tying good) on the buyer’s agreement to purchase a different product (the tied good). The examples you are giving are not "tie-in" sales because the service from Playstation Plus, Spotify, Apple Music, etc is the distribution of digital goods. > Unless I am mistaken Claude Code does not have a local model built into it, so it requires a server side component to work? Which part are you not understanding? I don't care about Claude Code. I do not want it and do not need it. All I care about is the access to the models through the client that I was already using! > When it comes to “Claude Code” for all that we should care about, again given that “Claude Code” is what you are paying for. No, it is not! I paid for Claude Pro. Claude != Claude Code.
- wrs 8mo ago
  Claude Pro = claude.ai, and they made no changes to that arrangement. Both claude.ai and Claude Pro are products built on top of the Claude API. You are free to buy access to the Claude API itself, with or without the other two, but the pricing is different because the price of claude.ai and Claude Code includes the API charges they incur.
  - rglullis 8mo ago
    > but the pricing is different because the price of claude.ai and Claude Code includes the API charges they incur. If that was true, then getting equivalent usage of the API without claude.ai and Claude Code should cost less, not more. You can try to find all sorts of explanations for it, at the end of the day is quite simple: they are subsidizing one product in order to grow the market share, and they are doing it at a loss now, because they believe they will make up for it later. I understand the reasoning from a business point of view, but this doesn't mean they are entitled to their profits. I do not understand people that think we simply accept their premise and assume they can screw us over just because they asked and put it on a piece of paper.
    - wrs 8mo ago
      We don't know if, on average, paying API prices for Claude Code is cheaper or not, so we don't know if they're operating it at a "loss". That math doesn't make sense in any case since it would be a "loss" based on their own external prices. The entire company is operating at a loss, regardless. In any case, the point is it's not tying; you're free to choose any combination of products.
      - rglullis 8mo ago
        > n any case, the point is it's not tying; you're free to choose any combination of products. These products can function independently, and the acquisition at a heavy discouont for one of them is conditional on the acquisition of the other. It definitely is a tie-in sale.
- 8mo ago

by nerdjon 8mo ago

rglullis 8mo ago

> What law is actually being broken in Brazil? "Tie-in sale": the business practice where a seller conditions the sale of one product (the tying good) on the buyer’s agreement to purchase a different product (the tied good). The examples you are giving are not "tie-in" sales because the service from Playstation Plus, Spotify, Apple Music, etc is the distribution of digital goods. > Unless I am mistaken Claude Code does not have a local model built into it, so it requires a server side component to work? Which part are you not understanding? I don't care about Claude Code. I do not want it and do not need it. All I care about is the access to the models through the client that I was already using! > When it comes to “Claude Code” for all that we should care about, again given that “Claude Code” is what you are paying for. No, it is not! I paid for Claude Pro. Claude != Claude Code.

wrs 8mo ago
Claude Pro = claude.ai, and they made no changes to that arrangement. Both claude.ai and Claude Pro are products built on top of the Claude API. You are free to buy access to the Claude API itself, with or without the other two, but the pricing is different because the price of claude.ai and Claude Code includes the API charges they incur.
- rglullis 8mo ago
  > but the pricing is different because the price of claude.ai and Claude Code includes the API charges they incur. If that was true, then getting equivalent usage of the API without claude.ai and Claude Code should cost less, not more. You can try to find all sorts of explanations for it, at the end of the day is quite simple: they are subsidizing one product in order to grow the market share, and they are doing it at a loss now, because they believe they will make up for it later. I understand the reasoning from a business point of view, but this doesn't mean they are entitled to their profits. I do not understand people that think we simply accept their premise and assume they can screw us over just because they asked and put it on a piece of paper.
  - wrs 8mo ago
    We don't know if, on average, paying API prices for Claude Code is cheaper or not, so we don't know if they're operating it at a "loss". That math doesn't make sense in any case since it would be a "loss" based on their own external prices. The entire company is operating at a loss, regardless. In any case, the point is it's not tying; you're free to choose any combination of products.
    - rglullis 8mo ago
      > n any case, the point is it's not tying; you're free to choose any combination of products. These products can function independently, and the acquisition at a heavy discouont for one of them is conditional on the acquisition of the other. It definitely is a tie-in sale.
8mo ago