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This is honestly the key difference here. I’m morally okay with using Claude Max Whatever with something like OpenCode because it’s literally the same thing fro

This is honestly the key difference here. I’m morally okay with using Claude Max Whatever with something like OpenCode because it’s literally the same thing from the usage pattern perspective. Plugging Nanoclaw into it is a whole another thing.

ethbr1 8mo ago
It probably doesn't help that the creator of OpenClaw just got hired by Anthropic's competitor. This sounds like engineering, finance, and legal got together and decided they were in an untenable position if OpenAI started nudging OpenClaw to burn even more tokens on Anthropic (or just never optimize) + continually updated workarounds to using subscription auth. But I'm sure OpenAI would never do something like that... At the end of the day, it's the same 'fixed price plan for variable use on a constrained resource' cellular problem: profitability becomes directly linked to actual average usage.
- skeledrew 8mo ago
  > OpenAI started nudging OpenClaw to burn even more tokens on Anthropic Not possible: OpenClaw is run by a foundation, and is open source, which means OpenAI has no leverage to do such a thing.
  - ethbr1 8mo ago
    Because open source has always been completely independent of unrelated corporate entities who employ people to work on it?
    - skeledrew 8mo ago
      Because anyone can actually check the code, which means if there's any funny business, someone will come across it eventually and blow it open.
      - notpushkin 8mo ago
        There probably wouldn’t be anything funny-looking – it might look like a genuine mistake in implementation that burns 2× or 3× tokens somehow (which, considering OpenClaw is vibe coded in the purest sense of this term, would blend right in).
        skeledrew 8mo ago
        Regardless, such things would eventually be found. Just as OpenClaw was tasked with finding and improving science repos (though unwelcome), it could - and very likely will - be tasked with improving its own codebase.
        adjwilley 8mo ago
        The bug that was causing the crazy token burn was added on Feb 15. It was claimed to have been fixed on Feb 19 (see https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/pull/20597 https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/pull/20597 ) but it's unclear to me whether that fix has been rolled out yet or if it completely solved the problem. (see https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/issues/21785 https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/issues/21785 ) TLDR: the commit broke caching so the entire conversation history was being treated as new input on each call instead of most of the conversation being cached.

ethbr1 8mo ago

It probably doesn't help that the creator of OpenClaw just got hired by Anthropic's competitor. This sounds like engineering, finance, and legal got together and decided they were in an untenable position if OpenAI started nudging OpenClaw to burn even more tokens on Anthropic (or just never optimize) + continually updated workarounds to using subscription auth. But I'm sure OpenAI would never do something like that... At the end of the day, it's the same 'fixed price plan for variable use on a constrained resource' cellular problem: profitability becomes directly linked to actual average usage.

skeledrew 8mo ago
> OpenAI started nudging OpenClaw to burn even more tokens on Anthropic Not possible: OpenClaw is run by a foundation, and is open source, which means OpenAI has no leverage to do such a thing.
- ethbr1 8mo ago
  Because open source has always been completely independent of unrelated corporate entities who employ people to work on it?
  - skeledrew 8mo ago
    Because anyone can actually check the code, which means if there's any funny business, someone will come across it eventually and blow it open.
    - notpushkin 8mo ago
      There probably wouldn’t be anything funny-looking – it might look like a genuine mistake in implementation that burns 2× or 3× tokens somehow (which, considering OpenClaw is vibe coded in the purest sense of this term, would blend right in).
      - skeledrew 8mo ago
        Regardless, such things would eventually be found. Just as OpenClaw was tasked with finding and improving science repos (though unwelcome), it could - and very likely will - be tasked with improving its own codebase.
        adjwilley 8mo ago
        The bug that was causing the crazy token burn was added on Feb 15. It was claimed to have been fixed on Feb 19 (see https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/pull/20597 https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/pull/20597 ) but it's unclear to me whether that fix has been rolled out yet or if it completely solved the problem. (see https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/issues/21785 https://github.com/openclaw/openclaw/issues/21785 ) TLDR: the commit broke caching so the entire conversation history was being treated as new input on each call instead of most of the conversation being cached.