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I hope Vibrant Visuals comes to Minecraft Java Edition quickly, it's a shame you need mods to have shaders on Java.

by notenlish 8mo ago

potwinkle 8mo ago
It seems kind of odd to play Java edition without mods at all. Wouldn't you have a simpler time on Bedrock?
- NekkoDroid 8mo ago
  Well... people do call it Bugrock for a reason.
  - permo-w 8mo ago
    Also redstone is different, there's no F3 menu, generally far less vanilla customisability, far more micro-transaction prompting, far fewer commands and I'm sure 20 other things that someone who has actually played Bedrock recently could name This thread is quite weird to me. People are massively overstating how important modding is and understating the strength of vanilla Java. Minecraft is not Skyrim Speedrunning, anarchy servers, parkour, technical farming, server economy destruction videos and other primarily vanilla Java content forms are as popular as ever or more. Alongside the newer content creators, Hermitcraft is still growing somehow, as is Etho. Besides anarchy a little bit, none of this is reliant on modding There are significant updates every year and many people, including me, install them every time they come out and play them in vanilla.
    - dzaima 8mo ago
      Speedrunning is very much modded - ranked (the big content) is just flat out modded (not just the match setup, there are game tweaks too (guaranteed blaze drops after 20 or so iirc, guaranteed dragon perch in ≤3 mins)), and even RSG/SSG/AA/etc have a long list of allowed mods (much quicker seed rerolling, timer, perf improvement mods, etc). Many(/most/all? idk) Many (/most/all? idk) hermits use mods (esp. freecam, replaymod for creating timelapses / pretty camera perspectives). Never mind shaders sprinkled in a portion of everything.
      - permo-w 8mo ago
        These are minor tweaks. You could remove these and the speedrunning community/HC would lose little. A second account in spectator mode is a slightly less convenient version of freecam and the speedrunning community is kidding themselves in the first place allowing any tweaks to RNG whatsoever. They could ban that tomorrow and there'd be some grumbling but nothing would change viewership-wise
        dzaima 8mo ago
        The main actual speedrunning categories don't allow any RNG changes; but I doubt anyone doing RSG would have any interest whatsoever going back to the 20x-or-whatever slower seed rolling, that's just a completely utterly dumb waste of time doing literally nothing except clicking a button every 5 seconds (effectively changing the category from "who can play the game the best" to much more like "who has the most beast of a machine to run as many minecraft instances in parallel to more quickly roll a good seed"). Viewership would definitely go down from there being less actual gameplay. Ranked is intended to be a fun competitive thing; waiting 10 minutes for a dragon perch doing nothing is Not Fun; waiting forever at a spawner is Not Fun; simple as that, people wouldn't play it if it wasn't fun. (oh, also, I believe Ranked also just generally includes making mob drops consistent for the same seed (and consistent portal locations, and probably other things), without which the whole entire concept of competitively playing the same seed would not work whatsoever, devolving to just who got the better RNG, distinctly Not Fun; also the ability to review a replay of your game afterwards for learning). Viewership and player counts would go down because you'd just be looking at very slow gambling instead of something actually meaningfully-skill-based. A second account might work for freecam (though it adds more editing work, aka makes you not want to actually use it much), but making pretty timelapses is not feasible that way. Granted, you could still live without it, but the quality of content would undoubtedly go down. The little things go a long, long, long way.
        dzaima 8mo ago
        To be clear I do kinda agree with the general idea that modding isn't that important to Minecraft Java; but it's still very important at least indirectly - were there not as large of a modding scene, I'd imagine many more content creators would've long ran out of content to make on it (or at least unique ways to do things), and the technical research/farms/whatever would be hampered by less available tooling. (for what it's worth, last I played minecraft, like 1-2 years ago, I did so lightly-modded - Do A Barrel Roll for much more fun elytra; lithium; Distant Horizons; Hydrophobic Elytra to fix a stupid extremely-annoying elytra bug (might be fixed now?), BetterF3 (kinda superceded by the more recent F3 overhaul now I suppose?))
creatonez 8mo ago
> it's a shame you need mods to have shaders on Java You don't. Ever since 1.17 you have been able to build GL shaders directly into resource packs. Resource packs don't require any complex loaders and don't pose a malware risk. To install them you can either drag-and-drop them as .zips directly into the resource pack menu, or a server/world can be configured to prompt the installation of a resource pack. These resource pack shaders are not quite as flexible as Aperture, Iris, or Optifine shaders, but they are fairly close in functionality. I'm curious if they will carry over this functionality for Vulkan shaders embedded into resource packs. I suspect they may not, which is understandable given how it can be used to break the game's functionality much worse than an ordinary resource pack can (not full RCE, though)
- HelloUsername 8mo ago
  > Ever since 1.17 you have been able to build GL shaders directly into resource packs This sounds very cool, I never knew this. Could you give me an example of such pack?
  - creatonez 8mo ago
    Here are a bunch of examples: https://github.com/McTsts/mc-core-shaders https://github.com/McTsts/mc-core-shaders This one is particularly interesting because it integrates block data in the rendered world along with some server-side augmented data to render a minimap in a vanilla client: https://github.com/JNNGL/VanillaMinimaps https://github.com/JNNGL/VanillaMinimaps

I hope Vibrant Visuals comes to Minecraft Java Edition quickly, it's a shame you need mods to have shaders on Java.

potwinkle 8mo ago

It seems kind of odd to play Java edition without mods at all. Wouldn't you have a simpler time on Bedrock?

NekkoDroid 8mo ago
Well... people do call it Bugrock for a reason.
- permo-w 8mo ago
  Also redstone is different, there's no F3 menu, generally far less vanilla customisability, far more micro-transaction prompting, far fewer commands and I'm sure 20 other things that someone who has actually played Bedrock recently could name This thread is quite weird to me. People are massively overstating how important modding is and understating the strength of vanilla Java. Minecraft is not Skyrim Speedrunning, anarchy servers, parkour, technical farming, server economy destruction videos and other primarily vanilla Java content forms are as popular as ever or more. Alongside the newer content creators, Hermitcraft is still growing somehow, as is Etho. Besides anarchy a little bit, none of this is reliant on modding There are significant updates every year and many people, including me, install them every time they come out and play them in vanilla.
  - dzaima 8mo ago
    Speedrunning is very much modded - ranked (the big content) is just flat out modded (not just the match setup, there are game tweaks too (guaranteed blaze drops after 20 or so iirc, guaranteed dragon perch in ≤3 mins)), and even RSG/SSG/AA/etc have a long list of allowed mods (much quicker seed rerolling, timer, perf improvement mods, etc). Many(/most/all? idk) Many (/most/all? idk) hermits use mods (esp. freecam, replaymod for creating timelapses / pretty camera perspectives). Never mind shaders sprinkled in a portion of everything.
    - permo-w 8mo ago
      These are minor tweaks. You could remove these and the speedrunning community/HC would lose little. A second account in spectator mode is a slightly less convenient version of freecam and the speedrunning community is kidding themselves in the first place allowing any tweaks to RNG whatsoever. They could ban that tomorrow and there'd be some grumbling but nothing would change viewership-wise
      - dzaima 8mo ago
        The main actual speedrunning categories don't allow any RNG changes; but I doubt anyone doing RSG would have any interest whatsoever going back to the 20x-or-whatever slower seed rolling, that's just a completely utterly dumb waste of time doing literally nothing except clicking a button every 5 seconds (effectively changing the category from "who can play the game the best" to much more like "who has the most beast of a machine to run as many minecraft instances in parallel to more quickly roll a good seed"). Viewership would definitely go down from there being less actual gameplay. Ranked is intended to be a fun competitive thing; waiting 10 minutes for a dragon perch doing nothing is Not Fun; waiting forever at a spawner is Not Fun; simple as that, people wouldn't play it if it wasn't fun. (oh, also, I believe Ranked also just generally includes making mob drops consistent for the same seed (and consistent portal locations, and probably other things), without which the whole entire concept of competitively playing the same seed would not work whatsoever, devolving to just who got the better RNG, distinctly Not Fun; also the ability to review a replay of your game afterwards for learning). Viewership and player counts would go down because you'd just be looking at very slow gambling instead of something actually meaningfully-skill-based. A second account might work for freecam (though it adds more editing work, aka makes you not want to actually use it much), but making pretty timelapses is not feasible that way. Granted, you could still live without it, but the quality of content would undoubtedly go down. The little things go a long, long, long way.
        dzaima 8mo ago
        To be clear I do kinda agree with the general idea that modding isn't that important to Minecraft Java; but it's still very important at least indirectly - were there not as large of a modding scene, I'd imagine many more content creators would've long ran out of content to make on it (or at least unique ways to do things), and the technical research/farms/whatever would be hampered by less available tooling. (for what it's worth, last I played minecraft, like 1-2 years ago, I did so lightly-modded - Do A Barrel Roll for much more fun elytra; lithium; Distant Horizons; Hydrophobic Elytra to fix a stupid extremely-annoying elytra bug (might be fixed now?), BetterF3 (kinda superceded by the more recent F3 overhaul now I suppose?))

creatonez 8mo ago

> it's a shame you need mods to have shaders on Java You don't. Ever since 1.17 you have been able to build GL shaders directly into resource packs. Resource packs don't require any complex loaders and don't pose a malware risk. To install them you can either drag-and-drop them as .zips directly into the resource pack menu, or a server/world can be configured to prompt the installation of a resource pack. These resource pack shaders are not quite as flexible as Aperture, Iris, or Optifine shaders, but they are fairly close in functionality. I'm curious if they will carry over this functionality for Vulkan shaders embedded into resource packs. I suspect they may not, which is understandable given how it can be used to break the game's functionality much worse than an ordinary resource pack can (not full RCE, though)

HelloUsername 8mo ago
> Ever since 1.17 you have been able to build GL shaders directly into resource packs This sounds very cool, I never knew this. Could you give me an example of such pack?
- creatonez 8mo ago
  Here are a bunch of examples: https://github.com/McTsts/mc-core-shaders https://github.com/McTsts/mc-core-shaders This one is particularly interesting because it integrates block data in the rendered world along with some server-side augmented data to render a minimap in a vanilla client: https://github.com/JNNGL/VanillaMinimaps https://github.com/JNNGL/VanillaMinimaps