I don't think there is going to be much argument here. The notion of "fat" plugins -- Java, Flash, Silverlight -- has, for the most part, proven to be one that

I don't think there is going to be much argument here. The notion of "fat" plugins -- Java, Flash, Silverlight -- has, for the most part, proven to be one that didn't work out, especially as mobile devices have become ever more prevalent. The essay here [1] could just as easily be applied to Java applets, or really to any platform which attempts to provide an similar functionality. Whenever Jobs wrote the "Thoughts on Flash" essay there were many spirited defenses of Flash given. What stood out to me is that there were not so many defenses given of Java applets, despite their being similar in many respects. The reason for this is because the problems with applets were well understood by just about everyone. Fewer seemed to be aware (or accepting) of the fact that these same issues were present with Flash. I think the overall lesson learned is that full-stack, in-browser VMs were an interesting experiment that ultimately failed. Java has its place on the server, and certainly much good which can be said about it. (And bad, of course.) But as an integral part of the web? No. [1] http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/