5 ms·

In the "THe VILLaIN aRC oF VANiTY SiZINg" section, vanity sizing is framed as marketing strategy which is successful because of the psychology around that - lin

In the "THe VILLaIN aRC oF VANiTY SiZINg" section, vanity sizing is framed as marketing strategy which is successful because of the psychology around that - linking out to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1057740813000612 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10577... for more detail. It certainly wouldn't be the first time the most profitable marketing strategy is unrelated to aligning with what's optimal for the consumer.

apt-apt-apt-apt 9mo ago
Translating the confusing science speak, basically: Appearance self-esteem takes a hit when they don't fit in a size. They take it out on the clothes: "I hate their stuff, they suck." They buy more of other stuff to compensate for the hit, whether non-sized accessories (I am pretty) or book/tech (I am smart even if I don't fit). People confident in their appearance are immune to the effect, and simply think it's sized wrong or runs small.
- goodmythical 9mo ago
  I am genuinely curious as to which words in the cited are 'confusing science speak' in your view. Having read the article, I can't venture a guess without feeling condescending...non-conforming? Compensatory? Legitimately confused.
  - zamadatix 9mo ago
    I think they read the full paper rather than the snippets and agree most couldn't tell you what Cronbach's alpha is, how ANOVA works, or otherwise accurately interpret the meaning of the results sections in a casual read through. One can grab the full paper on resources such as Anna's Archive if they don't have access via a university or such. Of course, the trick (once you know) is you don't need a comment summarizing it for you. The abstract is alright in a pinch, but the "General Discussion" in psychology papers is the equivalent of "Conclusion" and aims to discuss the results directly. It's still a bit verbose... but the language should at least be very familiar in comparison.
  - apt-apt-apt-apt 9mo ago
    They use precise but indirect terminology e.g., "heightened level of appearance self-esteem" rather than "confident in their appearance". Indirect phrasing e.g., "they respond more favorably to products that can help to repair their damaged appearance self-esteem" rather than something direct and easy to understand like "they feel bad that they don't fit, so they end up buying other things like makeup/jewelry to feel better about their appearance".
    - fao_ 9mo ago
      Maybe it's me, but only the first quote seems cumbersome, and wasn't very cumbersome in the article when I read it in context.
      - nikanj 9mo ago
        ”I had no issues with complex sentence structure, therefore the whole planet is fluent in english and college-level literate” Simpler language is an accessibility issue
      - Maxion 9mo ago
        Being able to easily, and quickly read scientific literature is not a universal trait. You're in the top 1% (probably top 0.1%?) if you're able to do that and actually understand the source material. The average person has a hard time reading and fully understanding a newspaper article or cooking instructions on a pre-prepared meal.
        throwaway2037 9mo ago
        The first paragraph is fine -- I agree. The second paragraph is a silly hyperbole that comes up over and over again on HN and needs to die. Major newspapers are written for about 8th grade level reading comprehension. Cooking instructions on a prep'd meal are probably much lower -- maybe 5th grade. The "average person" (whatever that term means) living in highly developed nations can read at 8th grade level or above.
AmbroseBierce 9mo ago
Of course education could help about this and other psychologically manipulative tactics by corps but such kind of education is heavily frowned upon for being seeing as anti-capitalist and (more propagandistic) as un-american, so there is zero of such kind of education.
- altairprime 9mo ago
  I mourn for the retreat of critical reasoning skills from modern U.S. early education systems.
- rcbdev 9mo ago
  Thankfully, for most people on Earth, the prospect of seeming "Un-American" is not relevant. It's also not a problem to argue against free-market economies - see Austria's second biggest city (Graz), which has an elected mayor from the communist party. These seem like uniquely U.S.-American issues.
- testdelacc1 9mo ago
  Education doesn’t help here, what are you talking about?! Educated people can read as many books as they want about manipulation and still be susceptible to it. The manipulation works on a much deeper emotional level. We can’t change who we are, no matter how much education we get. Being told by a brand “you’re fat” hurts no matter how many papers you’ve read or published and “you’re still thin and beautiful and desirable!” feels amazing.
galkk 9mo ago
This is the weirdest section, and is just unnecessary virtue signaling. Women don’t buy their real size because it makes them feel bad -> market pressures companies to address that by doing vanity sizing -> brands bad I cannot comprehend that jump in the logic.
- testdelacc1 9mo ago
  Not quite “brands bad”. It’s more that buying clothes across brands becomes confusing for women. That’s a worse outcome for women. The villain isn’t the brands, it’s the vanity sizing.

apt-apt-apt-apt 9mo ago

Translating the confusing science speak, basically: Appearance self-esteem takes a hit when they don't fit in a size. They take it out on the clothes: "I hate their stuff, they suck." They buy more of other stuff to compensate for the hit, whether non-sized accessories (I am pretty) or book/tech (I am smart even if I don't fit). People confident in their appearance are immune to the effect, and simply think it's sized wrong or runs small.

goodmythical 9mo ago
I am genuinely curious as to which words in the cited are 'confusing science speak' in your view. Having read the article, I can't venture a guess without feeling condescending...non-conforming? Compensatory? Legitimately confused.
- zamadatix 9mo ago
  I think they read the full paper rather than the snippets and agree most couldn't tell you what Cronbach's alpha is, how ANOVA works, or otherwise accurately interpret the meaning of the results sections in a casual read through. One can grab the full paper on resources such as Anna's Archive if they don't have access via a university or such. Of course, the trick (once you know) is you don't need a comment summarizing it for you. The abstract is alright in a pinch, but the "General Discussion" in psychology papers is the equivalent of "Conclusion" and aims to discuss the results directly. It's still a bit verbose... but the language should at least be very familiar in comparison.
- apt-apt-apt-apt 9mo ago
  They use precise but indirect terminology e.g., "heightened level of appearance self-esteem" rather than "confident in their appearance". Indirect phrasing e.g., "they respond more favorably to products that can help to repair their damaged appearance self-esteem" rather than something direct and easy to understand like "they feel bad that they don't fit, so they end up buying other things like makeup/jewelry to feel better about their appearance".
  - fao_ 9mo ago
    Maybe it's me, but only the first quote seems cumbersome, and wasn't very cumbersome in the article when I read it in context.
    - nikanj 9mo ago
      ”I had no issues with complex sentence structure, therefore the whole planet is fluent in english and college-level literate” Simpler language is an accessibility issue
    - Maxion 9mo ago
      Being able to easily, and quickly read scientific literature is not a universal trait. You're in the top 1% (probably top 0.1%?) if you're able to do that and actually understand the source material. The average person has a hard time reading and fully understanding a newspaper article or cooking instructions on a pre-prepared meal.
      - throwaway2037 9mo ago
        The first paragraph is fine -- I agree. The second paragraph is a silly hyperbole that comes up over and over again on HN and needs to die. Major newspapers are written for about 8th grade level reading comprehension. Cooking instructions on a prep'd meal are probably much lower -- maybe 5th grade. The "average person" (whatever that term means) living in highly developed nations can read at 8th grade level or above.

AmbroseBierce 9mo ago

Of course education could help about this and other psychologically manipulative tactics by corps but such kind of education is heavily frowned upon for being seeing as anti-capitalist and (more propagandistic) as un-american, so there is zero of such kind of education.

altairprime 9mo ago
I mourn for the retreat of critical reasoning skills from modern U.S. early education systems.
rcbdev 9mo ago
Thankfully, for most people on Earth, the prospect of seeming "Un-American" is not relevant. It's also not a problem to argue against free-market economies - see Austria's second biggest city (Graz), which has an elected mayor from the communist party. These seem like uniquely U.S.-American issues.
testdelacc1 9mo ago
Education doesn’t help here, what are you talking about?! Educated people can read as many books as they want about manipulation and still be susceptible to it. The manipulation works on a much deeper emotional level. We can’t change who we are, no matter how much education we get. Being told by a brand “you’re fat” hurts no matter how many papers you’ve read or published and “you’re still thin and beautiful and desirable!” feels amazing.

galkk 9mo ago

This is the weirdest section, and is just unnecessary virtue signaling. Women don’t buy their real size because it makes them feel bad -> market pressures companies to address that by doing vanity sizing -> brands bad I cannot comprehend that jump in the logic.

testdelacc1 9mo ago
Not quite “brands bad”. It’s more that buying clothes across brands becomes confusing for women. That’s a worse outcome for women. The villain isn’t the brands, it’s the vanity sizing.