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The real problem here is that the Europe's and specifically Germany's grid is not designed to handle the huge variations imposed my plants using renewable energ
by DasIch 14y ago
The real problem here is that the Europe's and specifically Germany's grid is not designed to handle the huge variations imposed my plants using renewable energy. It was designed with nuclear, coal and gas power plants in mind that create relatively constant and easily predictable amounts of energy.
This hasn't really been a problem before but with real interest and focus on that problem it will surely be solved and will eventually be small footnote as a short term problem we once had on the way to a future in which we will produce energy solely from renewable sources.
The fact that Germany is producing more energy than it knows what to do with is actually good news as it shows that the Energiewende is working.
- redwood 14y agoRight on: this is an exciting opportunity for grid management. A number of transitions will have to occur: movement toward more peaky-capable baseload generation, probably through natural gas turbines, movement toward storage etc. At the very least it's surprising they aren't pumping water uphill, or just shutting down hydro throughput, in these time periods. Or perhaps Europe's system of hydro electric dams isn't large enough.
- DasIch 14y agoNorthern Germany like the Netherlands consists entirely of flat land, so there are no hills to pump water up. Further more such solutions require a river relatively close to the hill that runs with enough water that the pumps have enough work to do and that can easily handle the water when you drain it. Even so such plants are used in the Middle and South of Germany where hills and mountains exists but you have to get the energy there and Poland is closer.
- redwood 14y agoGermany has a unified grid, I'm sure. We need to remember how small Germany is: smaller than California, for example and California relies on everything hydro from the Pacific Northwest all the way down to mountain western state coal. In anticipation of hot days the Pacific Northwest actually stops water flow on river dams to allow them to peak at high price points. There is probably a middle point here tho: Europe may have proportionally less hydro available. In fact it looks like Germany now has more wind capacity than hydro (something no where near achieved in California) so you're right: they might not be able to make it up that way.
- pcl 14y ago> Germany has a unified grid, I'm sure. The article seemed to indicate that this is not the case, and that until the south and north parts of the grid are well-connected domestically, excess power from the north gets routed south via Poland and the Czech Republic.
- Gravityloss 14y agoone more problem is that mainland Denmark is well connected to Germany and not to Jylland, which is connected to Scandinavia. Scandinavia has mountains and operates th Nordpool market. A HVDC network going from north african deserts to norwegian n mountains could solve some problems.
- marbu 14y agoExactly, you can see the up-to date numbers here: http://www.ceps.cz/ENG/Data/Vsechna-data/Pages/Preshranicni-toky.aspx http://www.ceps.cz/ENG/Data/Vsechna-data/Pages/Preshranicni-...
- Someone 14y agoHills can be made: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A//nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Lievense http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&... Also, about the German grid: http://lehre.umweltpruefung.tu-berlin.de/mw/index.php?title=Power_grid http://lehre.umweltpruefung.tu-berlin.de/mw/index.php?title=.... Germany has less need to distribute power east-west because, if there is wind in the Northwest, there will likely be wind in the northeast, too, but there, statistically, will be less sun in the south. Similarly, having sun in the south correlates with less wind in the north.
- vidarh 14y agoThe article covered this: Southern Germany gets part of it peak loads from Austrian pumped water reservoirs. But this does not solve the problem, as the energy trade between Austria and Germany is hampered by insufficient transmission capacity between the two countries, causing the neigbouring countries networks to take the load. In other words, it exacerbates the problem rather than fix it. (another reply explained why this isn't easily done within Germany: Lack of suitable potential reservoirs)