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$15k for only 13 kWh is not a sustainable price point. A high quality Victron inverter set for 3 phase is around $2500, that's not a budget option but one of t

by t0mas88 8mo ago

$15k for only 13 kWh is not a sustainable price point. A high quality Victron inverter set for 3 phase is around $2500, that's not a budget option but one of the better inverter brands you can find. Add $2000 for a 16 kWh battery and you're done for less than 1/3rd of the price of the Tesla solution.

dzhiurgis 8mo ago
I agree they are expensive, but IMO their software is worth $1k. Safety and quality in $2k battery is just not going to be there. That's bottom of the barrel. Quality batteries cost roughly the same.
- loosescrews 8mo ago
  I got two Tesla Powerwall 3s partly because I thought the software would be better. Instead, they are extremely buggy and the software has poor functionality. Many of the features are broken. The product feels like a prototype. Grid charging is broken and many of the features related to it don’t do what it says in the app. The batteries regularly do calibration cycles where they dump their entire charge and then stay at 0% charge level for at least 24 hours. When I first got them about a year and a half ago they would do that about once every two weeks, although they have reduced the frequency. I’ve also had issues with them turning on their heaters when it isn’t even cold and draining themselves. You get little to no insight into their operation and need to contact technical support for any little issue. They crash and do a hard reset and shut off the power every so often as well.
  - layla5alive 8mo ago
    Sounds like the software is worth -$10k! Paying a tesla tax to waste extra power AND not be sure they'll be charged in the event of an outage - quite a combination! Thanks for putting this review out there - its a good counterpoint to all the hype!
- mittensc 8mo ago
  it's not bottom of the barrel. You can build a 16kWh lifepo4 for ~1800$: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/server-rack-lifepo4.html https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/server-rack-lifepo4.html That gives you some experience so you'll be able to maintain it as well if any cell goes bad.
  - dzhiurgis 8mo ago
    Look I DIY'd my battery too. Thats not comparable to buying high end solution.
    - mittensc 8mo ago
      I'm curious what you mean by high end solution and how that's different. In my mind it's similar to premade computers vs build your own. Tesla would be something like Lenovo/dell here. They would just grab the same cells or cheaper and some other off the shelf components and sell them to you at massive markup. And you get situations like Battleborn where they couldnt even do the connections right and would start a fire by default... Will build my own as well this summer so really curious whats the best way to do this
      - dzhiurgis 8mo ago
        It's more like buying ozempic from india and mixing it yourself vs paying for real one
    - metalman 8mo ago
      I also have built my own offgrid sytems, but sodium is here now, and lithium is not competitive in any metric that counts in a static instalation especialy cost per kw/hr, and will very likely get insured to death as it will never be as safe. My next system upgrade will be aimed at home power/heat/hot water, shop, and car charging.Possibly with the car charging bieng a discreet system that works at a higher voltage and is all DC.
      - mittensc 8mo ago

by t0mas88 8mo ago

dzhiurgis 8mo ago

I agree they are expensive, but IMO their software is worth $1k. Safety and quality in $2k battery is just not going to be there. That's bottom of the barrel. Quality batteries cost roughly the same.

loosescrews 8mo ago
I got two Tesla Powerwall 3s partly because I thought the software would be better. Instead, they are extremely buggy and the software has poor functionality. Many of the features are broken. The product feels like a prototype. Grid charging is broken and many of the features related to it don’t do what it says in the app. The batteries regularly do calibration cycles where they dump their entire charge and then stay at 0% charge level for at least 24 hours. When I first got them about a year and a half ago they would do that about once every two weeks, although they have reduced the frequency. I’ve also had issues with them turning on their heaters when it isn’t even cold and draining themselves. You get little to no insight into their operation and need to contact technical support for any little issue. They crash and do a hard reset and shut off the power every so often as well.
- layla5alive 8mo ago
  Sounds like the software is worth -$10k! Paying a tesla tax to waste extra power AND not be sure they'll be charged in the event of an outage - quite a combination! Thanks for putting this review out there - its a good counterpoint to all the hype!
mittensc 8mo ago
it's not bottom of the barrel. You can build a 16kWh lifepo4 for ~1800$: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/server-rack-lifepo4.html https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/server-rack-lifepo4.html That gives you some experience so you'll be able to maintain it as well if any cell goes bad.
- dzhiurgis 8mo ago
  Look I DIY'd my battery too. Thats not comparable to buying high end solution.
  - mittensc 8mo ago
    I'm curious what you mean by high end solution and how that's different. In my mind it's similar to premade computers vs build your own. Tesla would be something like Lenovo/dell here. They would just grab the same cells or cheaper and some other off the shelf components and sell them to you at massive markup. And you get situations like Battleborn where they couldnt even do the connections right and would start a fire by default... Will build my own as well this summer so really curious whats the best way to do this
    - dzhiurgis 8mo ago
      It's more like buying ozempic from india and mixing it yourself vs paying for real one
  - metalman 8mo ago
    I also have built my own offgrid sytems, but sodium is here now, and lithium is not competitive in any metric that counts in a static instalation especialy cost per kw/hr, and will very likely get insured to death as it will never be as safe. My next system upgrade will be aimed at home power/heat/hot water, shop, and car charging.Possibly with the car charging bieng a discreet system that works at a higher voltage and is all DC.
    - mittensc 8mo ago