4 ms·

That's a bit frustrating to read a post like this one. There's lot of good developers and very few good coding jobs. Why does everybody still claim it's hard to

by gidan 14y ago

That's a bit frustrating to read a post like this one. There's lot of good developers and very few good coding jobs. Why does everybody still claim it's hard to find good developers?, we're everywhere.. Maybe i'm missing the point or i don't know how to find a coding job..

mattdeboard 14y ago
I suspect the article is very US-centric despite giving a little bit of lip service to European devs like yourself. I live in part of the American midwest not known for its tech companies; I work at a startup doing very fulfilling work that fits the definition of "changing the world for the better" (and getting paid for it) very well. Despite the latter and probably due to the former, it's extremely hard to find the right people.
HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
Are you in the Minneapolis, MN area? Do you have a technical degree (CS, CE, or other science or engineering degree?) Are you a skilled developer? Not just a coder who can patch together bits of code and read an API, but someone who can take a requirement and talk to the users and understand what it is they really want, then architect, design, code and test a subsystem that is not allowed to fail in its operating environment. I don't much care what languages you know, although knowledge of C++ would be nice. Can you demonstrate to me in a 1 hour interview that you are good at what you do? I'm not going to read your github code, but if you can demo a working application you wrote on your own I will look at it and ask design & implementation questions. That's basically what we look for, and trust me, it's very difficult to find someone who comes close. Code monkeys, OTOH, are easy to find.
- rrouse 14y ago
  Is physical presence a requirement? You could try looking outside the area. My current job is with a distributed team. I'm in St. Louis. Others are in Toronto, New Jersey (previously was in Spain), and South Carolina. It works well for us since we don't have "must-be-locked-down-on-site" sorts of projects (e.g. government contracts)
- TheEzEzz 14y ago
  > someone who can take a requirement and talk to the users and understand what it is they really want, then architect, design, code and test a subsystem that is not allowed to fail in its operating environment You are asking for someone that can complete an entire product cycle by themselves. The power of a company is in bringing together complementary people that complete a whole, not in finding a single person that does everything you need. Why would a person with the skill set of an entire team want to work for a company, rather than starting their own?
  - mooreds 14y ago
    It is interesting that they are looking for someone who can complete an entire product cycle. Maybe looking for flexibility, if they are a consulting shop? Or seniority--someone who can do all that has been around the block? Or maybe they are such a small shop they can't afford specialists? I have been in this full lifecycle role almost my entire career, often as a consultant, and it has benefits and downsides. You are always learning something new and have a wide view of the software world, as well as the ability to really dig into new toes of problems. But sometimes you feel a mile wide and an inch deep.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
      Nope, I work for a multibillion dollar company. We don't have separate roles like "architect," "business analyst"," "programmer," etc. We hire people who can be given a requirement, and then trusted to get it fully implemented. In the beginning, especially if you're fresh out of school, you may be given a simple design and told "code this," but that phase doesn't last very long.
  - jtheory 14y ago
    I suspect you're thinking of a product that would support a business -- the post you're responding to mentions a "subsystem". This is only a few steps beyond what anyone who completes a CS degree does at least two or three times during their coursework. If you take one of your end-of-year projects, do the work to make it actually robust enough for other people to use, and share it with the world (then do a few iterations of "wow, people aren't using this how I thought" and "wow, apparently that wasn't robust at all" and "damn I need real revision control", or even "huh; no one seems to want this at all") -- and fix the things that were wrong with your first attempts -- you're now far more valuable working any part of the process in large project dev than any of your classmates. Your project doesn't need to be big -- it probably shouldn't be, or you'll never get it out the door -- but scoping it is a lesson in itself that's really valuable to future employers. This is how I got my first software engineer job, fresh out of undergrad with a major in music; I had developed a set of music theory training drills, put them online (for free) and had already fought my way through a lot of lessons about browser incompatibilities, usability for non-technical users, how to support non-technical users effectively, etc. etc.. There was no way in hell I was ready to start a business of my own, at that point, and I was eager to work with more experienced developers -- I wanted to learn better ways to solve the problems I was struggling with -- so in seeking a job I wasn't just someone saying "I learned some stuff in school; can you pay me money for it?". I was saying "I already know somewhat what you do here; I want to learn how to do it really well, with you -- will you pay me to do that?"
- dschiptsov 14y ago
  someone who can take a requirement and talk to the users and understand what it is they really want, then architect, design, code and test a subsystem that is not allowed to fail in its operating environment - that someone need no other guys standing between him and money.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
  - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
    What do you mean by that?

by gidan 14y ago

mattdeboard 14y ago

I suspect the article is very US-centric despite giving a little bit of lip service to European devs like yourself. I live in part of the American midwest not known for its tech companies; I work at a startup doing very fulfilling work that fits the definition of "changing the world for the better" (and getting paid for it) very well. Despite the latter and probably due to the former, it's extremely hard to find the right people.

HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago

Are you in the Minneapolis, MN area? Do you have a technical degree (CS, CE, or other science or engineering degree?) Are you a skilled developer? Not just a coder who can patch together bits of code and read an API, but someone who can take a requirement and talk to the users and understand what it is they really want, then architect, design, code and test a subsystem that is not allowed to fail in its operating environment. I don't much care what languages you know, although knowledge of C++ would be nice. Can you demonstrate to me in a 1 hour interview that you are good at what you do? I'm not going to read your github code, but if you can demo a working application you wrote on your own I will look at it and ask design & implementation questions. That's basically what we look for, and trust me, it's very difficult to find someone who comes close. Code monkeys, OTOH, are easy to find.

rrouse 14y ago
Is physical presence a requirement? You could try looking outside the area. My current job is with a distributed team. I'm in St. Louis. Others are in Toronto, New Jersey (previously was in Spain), and South Carolina. It works well for us since we don't have "must-be-locked-down-on-site" sorts of projects (e.g. government contracts)
TheEzEzz 14y ago
> someone who can take a requirement and talk to the users and understand what it is they really want, then architect, design, code and test a subsystem that is not allowed to fail in its operating environment You are asking for someone that can complete an entire product cycle by themselves. The power of a company is in bringing together complementary people that complete a whole, not in finding a single person that does everything you need. Why would a person with the skill set of an entire team want to work for a company, rather than starting their own?
- mooreds 14y ago
  It is interesting that they are looking for someone who can complete an entire product cycle. Maybe looking for flexibility, if they are a consulting shop? Or seniority--someone who can do all that has been around the block? Or maybe they are such a small shop they can't afford specialists? I have been in this full lifecycle role almost my entire career, often as a consultant, and it has benefits and downsides. You are always learning something new and have a wide view of the software world, as well as the ability to really dig into new toes of problems. But sometimes you feel a mile wide and an inch deep.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
    Nope, I work for a multibillion dollar company. We don't have separate roles like "architect," "business analyst"," "programmer," etc. We hire people who can be given a requirement, and then trusted to get it fully implemented. In the beginning, especially if you're fresh out of school, you may be given a simple design and told "code this," but that phase doesn't last very long.
- jtheory 14y ago
  I suspect you're thinking of a product that would support a business -- the post you're responding to mentions a "subsystem". This is only a few steps beyond what anyone who completes a CS degree does at least two or three times during their coursework. If you take one of your end-of-year projects, do the work to make it actually robust enough for other people to use, and share it with the world (then do a few iterations of "wow, people aren't using this how I thought" and "wow, apparently that wasn't robust at all" and "damn I need real revision control", or even "huh; no one seems to want this at all") -- and fix the things that were wrong with your first attempts -- you're now far more valuable working any part of the process in large project dev than any of your classmates. Your project doesn't need to be big -- it probably shouldn't be, or you'll never get it out the door -- but scoping it is a lesson in itself that's really valuable to future employers. This is how I got my first software engineer job, fresh out of undergrad with a major in music; I had developed a set of music theory training drills, put them online (for free) and had already fought my way through a lot of lessons about browser incompatibilities, usability for non-technical users, how to support non-technical users effectively, etc. etc.. There was no way in hell I was ready to start a business of my own, at that point, and I was eager to work with more experienced developers -- I wanted to learn better ways to solve the problems I was struggling with -- so in seeking a job I wasn't just someone saying "I learned some stuff in school; can you pay me money for it?". I was saying "I already know somewhat what you do here; I want to learn how to do it really well, with you -- will you pay me to do that?"
dschiptsov 14y ago
someone who can take a requirement and talk to the users and understand what it is they really want, then architect, design, code and test a subsystem that is not allowed to fail in its operating environment - that someone need no other guys standing between him and money.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
- HeyLaughingBoy 14y ago
  What do you mean by that?