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Portugal: The First Global Empire (2015)
- N19PEDL2 8mo agoIt would be interesting to imagine a uchronic world where Portuguese has become the lingua franca of the world.
- hearsathought 8mo agoYou would first have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of the iberian peninsula. Hard to imagine. Passing that hurdle, then you'd have to imagine portuguese being the lingua franca of western europe. Hard to imagine that. Then of europe as a whole and so on. Almost a joke now. Portuguese was never the major power of it's immediate vicinity, let alone the world. Portugual, like the netherlands, was a glorified trading network rather than a legitimate empire. And portugual, like the netherlands, were minor powers within europe. Neither were major global powers as we understand the term and neither were powerful nor significant enough to produce a lingua franca of anything.
- denismenace 8mo ago> Portugual, like the netherlands, was a glorified trading network rather than a legitimate empire. nothing more than a glorified crew in New Jersey
- andrepd 8mo agoIn this house, Vasco da Gama is a hero, end of story!
- GrowingSideways 8mo ago[dead]
- leflambeur 8mo agoI think the comparison with the Netherlands is generally appropriate, but we must recognize that what they did in Brazil was exceptional (meaning not comparable to their former possessions in Asia and Africa, a difference from the mere trading nodes) and the NL never did achieve anything like it. The Portuguese managed to maintain territorial integrity and make their religion and language dominate it entirely, in what's today the 5th largest nation state by area. They also had to defend the longest coastline. The Portuguese Empire did exist but AFAIK never did aspire to world hegemony like the U.K. Their idea of empire was best represented by something they briefly had which was the combined union with Brazil after its promotion from colony in 1815. So, not an empire like the U.K. and never wanting to be an empire like the U.K. but also not a total failure to achieve some version of it, however short lived that was.
- rmah 8mo agoYes and no. it's not like they ever extracted taxes from most of the natives living in the amazon jungle. Saying that you rule over people that have literally never heard of you is, IMO, stretching the definition of "rule" quite a bit :-)
- leflambeur 8mo agoSince when is taxing all subjects a necessity? Britain didn't tax people in the 13 colonies so could we conclude that before the American Revolution they were not part of the British Empire?
- gib444 8mo ago> The Portuguese Empire did exist but AFAIK never did aspire to world hegemony like the U.K Every time I meet a laid back, easy going and kind Portuguese person — which is most of them — I always think that explains their relatively unambitious world domination plans.
- MITSardine 8mo agoThe Portuguese sometimes describe themselves as the "povo de brandos costumes" (people of mild customs).
- TheOtherHobbes 8mo agoThe 1755 earthquake effectively nuked the capital and killed maybe a third of GDP. Portugal was never interested in dominance of Europe - hard to project power to the centre when you're out on the far edge and have more of a navy than an army. But the trade network was the first truly global network, and very much non-trivial.
- antsou 8mo agoThere is a very good reason why Portugal and the Netherlands were so similar, in this regard!
- nunobrito 8mo agoOn the southern hemisphere of this planet it is the most spoken native language. Interesting enough it has a wild variation of accents/slangs but the written form mostly stays the same regardless of the country.
- Frieren 8mo agoWorld powers change and shift with changes of technology, climate and needs for resources. Countries rise to power because they are in the right place at the right time, even if monarchs and nationalists will always attribute it to God preference or other self-serving reason. > The first century of Portuguese discoveries saw a successive stripping away of layers of medieval mythology about the world and the received wisdom of ancient authority – the tales of dog-headed men and birds that could swallow elephants – by the empirical observation of geography, climate, natural history and cultures that ushered in the early modern age. Technology brings societal change. The world has been becoming smaller with help of each new technological step. Societies can fight it, but it is unavoidable. So, I hope that we focus more on building a good world for us all using technology to improve all our lives.
- nlitened 8mo ago> Countries rise to power because they are in the right place at the right time, even if monarchs and nationalists will always attribute it to God preference Isn’t it literally the God’s preference of a country for this place and time, from both secular and religious points of view?
- Frieren 8mo agoThe traditional way of looking to by "God will" means that something is right and moral. I agree that nowadays it is also used as just a substitute to "luck" or "random event" without the moral connotations.
- ksec 8mo ago>World powers change and shift with changes of technology, climate and needs for resources. Countries rise to power because they are in the right place at the right time, I wonder when will China take the crown. Assuming US follows on their current trajectory.
- braza 8mo agoAs a Brazilian, the whole improbable (and beautiful) history of Portugal raised by the "Navegações" and how badly they bottled the whole imperium (especially after the Brazilian independence, but one can argue that João VI opened the ports) and the sheer amount of lack of vision in not investing in production is something that will always amaze me. One can say that it was one of the longest imperiums in history (ending in 1999 with Macau???), but every time that I spend some time in Portuguese cities, I feel just bad. The good thing is that Brazil will carry its tradition for posterity nevertheless.
- pdpi 8mo ago> but every time that I spend some time in Portuguese cities, I feel just bad What do you mean? (Asking this as a Portuguese guy who really doesn't feel at home back there any more)
- Koshkin 8mo agoThe Chinese selling Portuguese souvenirs made in China?
- JetSpiegel 8mo ago> Navegações You mean "Descobrimentos", although that is kinda old fashioned. They were "discovering" lands, the same way I discover Disneyland when I get there from the first time.
- nunobrito 8mo ago
- AnimalMuppet 8mo ago> Information was fed back into a central hub, the India House in Lisbon, where everything was stored under the crown's direct control to inform the next cycle of voyages. This system of feedback and adaptation was highly effective. It was accompanied by a rapid expansion in cartographic knowledge. This almost feels like state-sponsored R&D, 500 years ago.
- ajb 8mo agoHistorically, what R&D there was, was often done by the state; simply because of being the entity with the most spare capacity to do so. It goes a long way back, Egyptian pharoes and Chinese emperors had written in their histories about how they invented things or made economic improvements. These were most likely done by people under their sponsorship, but nevertheless they saw it as part of their role.
- Buxato 8mo agoSpain facepalm.
- Buxato 8mo agohttps://woelkeportfolio.weebly.com/uploads/8/9/5/8/8958405/1815_colonial_map.gif https://woelkeportfolio.weebly.com/uploads/8/9/5/8/8958405/1...
- fauria 8mo agoSpain was the first globalization, not Portugal. The article forgets to mention two key elements: 1) The Manila galeon[1], the first trading route connecting Europe, America and Asia. This was the first trully global trade route (Portugual never established a trans-Pacific route). 2) The Real de a Ocho[2], the first global currency, used virtually everywhere including the US until the modern dollar replaced it in 1857. It still lives through the $ symbol, representing the Pillars of Hercules and the "Plus Ultra" script [3]. It also downplays the role of Spain in the first circumnavigation. Sure, Magellan was born in Portugal, but he sailed for the Spanish Crown. The expedition was financed by Spain, sailed Spanish ships and finished its trip commanded by a Spanish sailor (Juan Sebastián Elcano). Finally, it is worth mentioning that the Spanish was not an empire of mere territorial possession, it was a civilization. Spain has currently 50 sites inscribed as UNESCO World Heritage [4], and from the ~150 sites in the Americas, ~50 were built by Spain. These includes entire cities, universities, hospitals, infrastructure, defenses and more [5]. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGRn5qCAXBI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGRn5qCAXBI [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_ultra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus_ultra [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heritage_Sites_in_Spain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Heritage_Sites_i... [5] https://greatbritainandtheusatheirtruehistory.quora.com/33-cities-founded-in-the-Americas-by-Spain-have-been-declared-World-Heritage-Sites-by-UNESCO-How-many-are-there-in-the https://greatbritainandtheusatheirtruehistory.quora.com/33-c...
- sigmar 8mo ago>This was the first trully global trade route (Portugual never established a trans-Pacific route). You're saying because Portugal traded with Asia through the wrong ocean, it wasn't global? Seems like an odd metric.
- fauria 8mo agoNo, I'm sayng that Portugal never closed the circuit that led to a global trade route. They built a line between Europe and Asia, but Asia and America remained economically disconnected. It was that loop that Spain closed that enabled a global economy.
- JetSpiegel 8mo agoAlso unmentioned is the disastrous intervention in the Moroccan civil war of 1580, where the teen king and most of its nobles were killed, leading to 60 years of Spanish rule. This is not at the apex of the empire, but close. Also, Henry the Navigator downright stole or cajoled most of the "inovations" from Italian city states. For example, the Madeira island was named so by Italians, settled by some of Henry's minions.
- pjmlp 8mo agoNah, he is still supposed to come back in a foggy morning according to the legend. Fueled by the fact that his body was never found, so it might be that he survived and rather stay low than come back.
- JetSpiegel 8mo agoMayve he will come back on the 500th aniversary, looking forward to that.
- dwd 8mo agoFor anyone interested in this "They may have been the first to visit Australia.", the comment refers to a wreck supposedly found in 1836 by whalers near Warrnambool. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahogany_Ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahogany_Ship
- seattle_spring 8mo agoPortugal. The man. The empire.
- ricardorivaldo 8mo agogo portugal !
- United857 8mo agoFun fact: Macau was the oldest and longest lived European colony in Asia, 1557-1999. It’s still a fun place to visit and mostly off the radar for Western tourists.
- araarabish 8mo agoDuring the Napoleonic wars, the entire Portuguese court relocated to Rio de Janiro which became the new capital. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_the_Portuguese_court_to_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_of_the_Portuguese_cou...
- Anon84 8mo agoTechnically, also the last global empire. Macau wasn't returned to China until 1999. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Macau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handover_of_Macau
- markdown 8mo agoFrance and USA still have colonies around the world. So no, not the last.
- Anon84 8mo agoAre those considered colonies or territories?
- markdown 8mo agoIn the context of this discussion there really isn't a difference.
- Pay08 8mo agoSo does the UK.
- hugodan 8mo agoAlso Netherlands, also France, also Denmark, also Spain (melila and ceuta)... actually Portugal kinda is still the first global empire that managed to shift away from it
- oska 8mo agoWhen xenophobia is a useful social defence : > They were most successful in Japan, creating about 300,000 converts until their activities induced a wave of xenophobia and they were either expelled or killed. I am immensely glad that Japan was not colonised early on like the Philippines to their south unfortunately was.
- ch4s3 8mo agoThe peak of Japanese xenophobia in the 1930s however was conversely very unfortunate for everyone nearby.
- oska 8mo agoI'm very aware, of course, of the horrific crimes that Japan carried out in China and other countries in the 1930s but that is not xenophobia. People going outside their country (to do whatever) are not affected by xenophobia. Xenophobia is a fear of people from outside the country, within that country. Native cultures (however you want to define that) have always shown some curiousity and openness to visitors from outside the culture but that is balanced by some level of xenophobia too, that ramps up as people inside the culture feel that they are being overwhelmed. Both aspects of openness and shutting out are natural traits in any homogenous culture.
- ch4s3 8mo agoNo xenophobia is “the fear or dislike of people who are perceived as being foreign or strange”. Thats just from the dictionary. You could call the brutal repression of the Ainu and native Okinawans a kind of xenophobic/racist ultra nationalism. Also Japan’s crimes extend far beyond China, and were especially brutal in Korea were they practiced a horrific form of slavery. The Japanese are so xenophobic they try to exclude the descendants of Korean slaves who have been living in Japan for a century, have Japanese names, and only speak Japanese. Their xenophobia is not laudable.
- oska 8mo ago
- dzonga 8mo agoeach empire of built on mastering an energy source Portuguese - wind british - coal america - oil now we're witnessing Chinese master renewables (solar & wind)