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You need only look at Tesla's attempts to compete with Waymo to see that you are just wrong. They tried to actually deploy fully autonomous Teslas, and it doesn

You need only look at Tesla's attempts to compete with Waymo to see that you are just wrong. They tried to actually deploy fully autonomous Teslas, and it doesn't really work, it requires a human supervisor per car.

geertj 8mo ago
Tesla have recently started introducing unsupervised cars cars as well.
- jqpabc123 8mo ago
  Yes, they moved the "safety driver" into a chase car. And the results speak for themselves. https://www.gurufocus.com/news/8623960/tesla-tsla-robotaxi-crashes-in-austin-rise-to-14 https://www.gurufocus.com/news/8623960/tesla-tsla-robotaxi-c...
  - rsynnott 8mo ago
    And seemingly only along one stretch of road? Like, this happened in Dublin in 2018: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/driverless-shuttle-takes-to-the-streets-of-dublin-1.3636947 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/driverles... - going up and down a stretch of road is about as easy as it gets. > Mr Keegan said he was “pretty confident” that in “the next five to 10 years” driverless vehicles would “make a major contribution in terms of sustainable transport” on Dublin’s streets. As always, people were overoptimistic back then, too. There are currently no driverless vehicles in Dublin at all, with none expected anytime soon unless you count the metro system (strictly speaking driverless, but clearly not what he was talking about).
  - SirMaster 8mo ago
    A bus crashing into a stationary Tesla counts as a crash for Tesla? What in the world is this metric?
    - jqpabc123 8mo ago
      Ask Musk why he refuses to provide details of accidents so we can make a judgment. Tesla’s own Vehicle Safety Report claims that the average US driver experiences a minor collision every 229,000 miles, meaning the robotaxi fleet is crashing four times more often even by the company’s own benchmark. https://www.automotiveworld.com/news/tesla-robotaxis-reporting-crash-rates-far-higher-than-humans/ https://www.automotiveworld.com/news/tesla-robotaxis-reporti...
      - SirMaster 8mo ago
        I don't see how we could know the rate of US driver minor collisions like that. No way most people reporting 1-4mph "collisions" with things like this.
        mrguyorama 8mo ago
        You don't have to know. You can fully remove the few "minor" accidents (that a self driving car shouldn't be doing ever anyway) and the Tesla still comes out worse than a statistical bucket that includes a staggering number of people who are currently driving drunk or high or reading a book The car cannot be drunk or high. It can't be sleepy. It can't be distracted. It can't be worse at driving than any of the other cars. It can't get road rage. So why is it running into a stationary object at 17mph? Worse, it's very very easy to take a human that crashes a lot and say "You actually shouldn't be on the road anymore" or at least their insurance becomes expensive. The system in all of these cars is identical. If one is hitting parked objects at 17mph, they would almost all do it.
loandbehold 8mo ago
They are behind Waymo but they are getting there. They started giving fully autonomous drives since last month without safety driver in Austin. Tesla chose a harder camera-only approach but it's more scalable once it works.
- swexbe 8mo ago
  ...if it works.
- ahartmetz 8mo ago
  >more scalable It's cheaper, that's all it is.
  - TheTxT 8mo ago
    Which makes it easier to scale?
    - ndsipa_pomu 8mo ago
      Not if they have to have remote drivers ready to help out with the "autonomous" system.
    - ahartmetz 8mo ago
      Which using a five-dollar word to describe a one-cent fact. Scalability is usually about O(n²) vs O(n log n) or something, not a smaller constant that's significant but not a game changer.
- flyinglizard 8mo ago
  Clearly at this point the camera-only thing is the ego of Musk getting in the way of the business, because any rational executive would have slapped a LIDAR there long ago.
- dyauspitr 8mo ago
  Why is it more scalable? LIDAR is cheap now.
- 8mo ago

geertj 8mo ago

Tesla have recently started introducing unsupervised cars cars as well.

jqpabc123 8mo ago
Yes, they moved the "safety driver" into a chase car. And the results speak for themselves. https://www.gurufocus.com/news/8623960/tesla-tsla-robotaxi-crashes-in-austin-rise-to-14 https://www.gurufocus.com/news/8623960/tesla-tsla-robotaxi-c...
- rsynnott 8mo ago
  And seemingly only along one stretch of road? Like, this happened in Dublin in 2018: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/driverless-shuttle-takes-to-the-streets-of-dublin-1.3636947 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/driverles... - going up and down a stretch of road is about as easy as it gets. > Mr Keegan said he was “pretty confident” that in “the next five to 10 years” driverless vehicles would “make a major contribution in terms of sustainable transport” on Dublin’s streets. As always, people were overoptimistic back then, too. There are currently no driverless vehicles in Dublin at all, with none expected anytime soon unless you count the metro system (strictly speaking driverless, but clearly not what he was talking about).
- SirMaster 8mo ago
  A bus crashing into a stationary Tesla counts as a crash for Tesla? What in the world is this metric?
  - jqpabc123 8mo ago
    Ask Musk why he refuses to provide details of accidents so we can make a judgment. Tesla’s own Vehicle Safety Report claims that the average US driver experiences a minor collision every 229,000 miles, meaning the robotaxi fleet is crashing four times more often even by the company’s own benchmark. https://www.automotiveworld.com/news/tesla-robotaxis-reporting-crash-rates-far-higher-than-humans/ https://www.automotiveworld.com/news/tesla-robotaxis-reporti...
    - SirMaster 8mo ago
      I don't see how we could know the rate of US driver minor collisions like that. No way most people reporting 1-4mph "collisions" with things like this.
      - mrguyorama 8mo ago
        You don't have to know. You can fully remove the few "minor" accidents (that a self driving car shouldn't be doing ever anyway) and the Tesla still comes out worse than a statistical bucket that includes a staggering number of people who are currently driving drunk or high or reading a book The car cannot be drunk or high. It can't be sleepy. It can't be distracted. It can't be worse at driving than any of the other cars. It can't get road rage. So why is it running into a stationary object at 17mph? Worse, it's very very easy to take a human that crashes a lot and say "You actually shouldn't be on the road anymore" or at least their insurance becomes expensive. The system in all of these cars is identical. If one is hitting parked objects at 17mph, they would almost all do it.

loandbehold 8mo ago

They are behind Waymo but they are getting there. They started giving fully autonomous drives since last month without safety driver in Austin. Tesla chose a harder camera-only approach but it's more scalable once it works.

swexbe 8mo ago
...if it works.
ahartmetz 8mo ago
>more scalable It's cheaper, that's all it is.
- TheTxT 8mo ago
  Which makes it easier to scale?
  - ndsipa_pomu 8mo ago
    Not if they have to have remote drivers ready to help out with the "autonomous" system.
  - ahartmetz 8mo ago
    Which using a five-dollar word to describe a one-cent fact. Scalability is usually about O(n²) vs O(n log n) or something, not a smaller constant that's significant but not a game changer.
flyinglizard 8mo ago
Clearly at this point the camera-only thing is the ego of Musk getting in the way of the business, because any rational executive would have slapped a LIDAR there long ago.
dyauspitr 8mo ago
Why is it more scalable? LIDAR is cheap now.
8mo ago