4 ms·

Still making fantastic profit every quarter. So there's really no issue.

ben_w 8mo ago
Those profits have also gone down; the only year they made lower-but-still-positive profit than 2025 ($3794m) was the first year since their founding in which they made any profit (which was 2020 and $721m). Tesla's total profits over its entire existence ($37,883m [0]) is about as much as Musk has personally made by selling Tesla shares ($40bn ish [1]), but of that profit I can find $12.8bn can be attributed to government incentives[2] that have now largely or completely gone away. [0] Net lifetime based on all the ups and downs of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla%2C_Inc.#Finances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla%2C_Inc.#Finances [1] I assume some of this got rounded: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sales-profits-electric-vehicles-twitter-debt-2022-12 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/elon-musk-te... [2] Between US federal ($11.4bn for just zero-emission vehicles standards) and local state incentives (and more, I didn't fully sum everything): https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2025/elon-musk-business-government-contracts-funding/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2025/e...
- DoesntMatter22 8mo ago
  Not sure what relevance Musk selling shares has to do with profit they've made. That seems completely irrelevant. That being said, yeah, profits were down a bit but a lot of that was stock compensation and other things. In practical terms they went from a cash position of 36 billion to 44 billion. They are in a phenomenal position financially as they have very little debt. By comparison GM made 2.7 billion and Stellantis lost 20 billion. Tesla is in such a great cash position that Apple only has about 10 billion more than them in cash. The future looks fantastic.
  - ben_w 8mo ago
    > Not sure what relevance Musk selling shares has to do with profit they've made. That seems completely irrelevant. Selling shares for more than the company made in its entire existence, demonstrates the shares are overvalued. > By comparison GM made 2.7 billion and Stellantis lost 20 billion. 2.7/3.7 = 0.73; GM's market cap is $77.67bn, using them as your framing of the problem gets you to a Tesla market cap of $106.40bn, not their actual ~$1.5T. And Toyota made 40-45 billion USD profit for each of the last few years, i.e. more than Tesla in its lifetime, while having a market cap that's currently $316.8bn. Telsa, market cap $1551bn, about 5x that of a company which makes more each year than it did in total, is overpriced. Especially given how harshly both Tesla's profits and sales are declining even in otherwise growing markets. Telsa could shift the decimal point on its market cap one place and still be overpriced. Given what they are as a business, they are not in "a phenomenal position financially", they are in an OK position for a normal boring traditional car company and a terrible one for a trillion-dollar market cap club company. (Numbers from companiesmarketcap.com, in case anyone complains those are out of date).
    - DoesntMatter22 8mo ago
      Unfortunately you don’t understand what “overvalued” means. The price is what people are willing to pay. Tesla is far more than a car company. Even someone who hates them can recognize that
      - ben_w 8mo ago
        > The price is what people are willing to pay. Price != value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania > Tesla is far more than a car company. No, they're not. The only thing they sell are cars and car-stuff. They have yet to sell those humanoid robots they show off. Hell, there's other car companies who also make humanoid robots, who have more than twice Tesla's revenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Group Even Tesla's subsidiary, Tesla Energy, which breaks out beyond "cars" is only about 10% of revenue of the car company, so even if you argue their ownership structure makes the group "more", it's still not "far more", but rather "rounding error". Tesla's AI is just car AI, which other car manufacturers also have, and bluntly seem to be doing a bit better with it. Even if they were "much more", a 90% drop in market cap would still see it priced like a high-growth tech firm, of the kind which people are independently worried may be in a bubble. When the market prices this in, Tesla's share price will go down 90-99% on the international market. Perhaps not in USD though, depends how hard that goes weird.

ben_w 8mo ago

Those profits have also gone down; the only year they made lower-but-still-positive profit than 2025 ($3794m) was the first year since their founding in which they made any profit (which was 2020 and $721m). Tesla's total profits over its entire existence ($37,883m [0]) is about as much as Musk has personally made by selling Tesla shares ($40bn ish [1]), but of that profit I can find $12.8bn can be attributed to government incentives[2] that have now largely or completely gone away. [0] Net lifetime based on all the ups and downs of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla%2C_Inc.#Finances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla%2C_Inc.#Finances [1] I assume some of this got rounded: https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/elon-musk-tesla-stock-sales-profits-electric-vehicles-twitter-debt-2022-12 https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/elon-musk-te... [2] Between US federal ($11.4bn for just zero-emission vehicles standards) and local state incentives (and more, I didn't fully sum everything): https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2025/elon-musk-business-government-contracts-funding/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2025/e...

DoesntMatter22 8mo ago
Not sure what relevance Musk selling shares has to do with profit they've made. That seems completely irrelevant. That being said, yeah, profits were down a bit but a lot of that was stock compensation and other things. In practical terms they went from a cash position of 36 billion to 44 billion. They are in a phenomenal position financially as they have very little debt. By comparison GM made 2.7 billion and Stellantis lost 20 billion. Tesla is in such a great cash position that Apple only has about 10 billion more than them in cash. The future looks fantastic.
- ben_w 8mo ago
  > Not sure what relevance Musk selling shares has to do with profit they've made. That seems completely irrelevant. Selling shares for more than the company made in its entire existence, demonstrates the shares are overvalued. > By comparison GM made 2.7 billion and Stellantis lost 20 billion. 2.7/3.7 = 0.73; GM's market cap is $77.67bn, using them as your framing of the problem gets you to a Tesla market cap of $106.40bn, not their actual ~$1.5T. And Toyota made 40-45 billion USD profit for each of the last few years, i.e. more than Tesla in its lifetime, while having a market cap that's currently $316.8bn. Telsa, market cap $1551bn, about 5x that of a company which makes more each year than it did in total, is overpriced. Especially given how harshly both Tesla's profits and sales are declining even in otherwise growing markets. Telsa could shift the decimal point on its market cap one place and still be overpriced. Given what they are as a business, they are not in "a phenomenal position financially", they are in an OK position for a normal boring traditional car company and a terrible one for a trillion-dollar market cap club company. (Numbers from companiesmarketcap.com, in case anyone complains those are out of date).
  - DoesntMatter22 8mo ago
    Unfortunately you don’t understand what “overvalued” means. The price is what people are willing to pay. Tesla is far more than a car company. Even someone who hates them can recognize that
    - ben_w 8mo ago
      > The price is what people are willing to pay. Price != value. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania > Tesla is far more than a car company. No, they're not. The only thing they sell are cars and car-stuff. They have yet to sell those humanoid robots they show off. Hell, there's other car companies who also make humanoid robots, who have more than twice Tesla's revenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Group Even Tesla's subsidiary, Tesla Energy, which breaks out beyond "cars" is only about 10% of revenue of the car company, so even if you argue their ownership structure makes the group "more", it's still not "far more", but rather "rounding error". Tesla's AI is just car AI, which other car manufacturers also have, and bluntly seem to be doing a bit better with it. Even if they were "much more", a 90% drop in market cap would still see it priced like a high-growth tech firm, of the kind which people are independently worried may be in a bubble. When the market prices this in, Tesla's share price will go down 90-99% on the international market. Perhaps not in USD though, depends how hard that goes weird.