5 ms·

It's a shame to see Marco panning the Surface so thoroughly. It's apples and oranges. On the one hand, comparing brand new hardware (one day old) with 4th gener

by Todd 14y ago

It's a shame to see Marco panning the Surface so thoroughly. It's apples and oranges. On the one hand, comparing brand new hardware (one day old) with 4th generation hardware and on the other hand comparing brand new software (again, one day old) with version 6 software. Despite the criticisms of some of the execution here and there (e.g., the pointless animations), it's clear if you've done any reading that a tremendous amount of research and UX work went into this--but it's a v1 product and many of the apps are written by groups other than MS. I got a chance to use the Surface today and the thing that I came away with was that this could be a person's only computer. As an example, you can browse the file system, run desktop apps, and copy files to external storage. I can't say that about an iPad. Everyone I know who owns an iPad (myself included) also has a second computer somewhere--often in the same bag. The other thing I came away with was that Microsoft is open and Apple is closed. Why can't I plug a microSD card into any Apple product? Why can't I plug in a USB device? You can plug your camera into the Surface (it's a host) and download pictures to your local machine. MS has several capacities and price points, just like Apple, but they're not afraid to let you use external storage. I believe in a future with open computing and, firmware lock downs notwithstanding, MS is far more open than Apple.

babesh 14y ago
It is not apples and oranges. People making a utility-based purchasing decision can only compare the 1st generation Surface to the 4th generation iPad. The amount of R&D has no relevance to a consumer. The relevant thing is how much value the device provides. I agree that the expectation and advantage is to have your tablet serve as your one and only computer. But this will never be actually true since most people will actually have to carry around a phone (or phablet). The portability and availability of a phone will beat out that of a tablet. Try jogging with a tablet. What a tablet currently buys you is a larger screen and a keyboard that you can type on for awhile. A truer statement may be that this tablet's aim is to take on additional functionality found in desktops and laptops and not found in other tablets. In Microsoft's mind, that functionality is Office and access the file system. You can plug in microSD and USD into an iPad. You need the accessories. Agree that they don't let you use external storage. If you want open computing, you shouldn't be picking Microsoft, nor Apple, nor Google. Are you saying that you want to depend on an entity whose sole purpose is to make money to supply you with open source code in the long run? How about Oracle with Java? Or Compuserve with gif? Corporations don't even trust other corporations with key technologies without making them open source or FRAND. If you truly want open source, you should be branching Android and replacing or removing Google services with open source alternatives.
- lostlogin 14y ago
  Well, you disagree with Microsoft. As an exec said here (sorry to link to BGR) http://bgr.com/2012/10/25/microsoft-executive-mundie-interview-cyber-crime-stalled-smartphones/ http://bgr.com/2012/10/25/microsoft-executive-mundie-intervi... MS lead the way with tablets and touch based systems. If they were first, the surface isn't version 1.
  - babesh 14y ago
    That's quibbling. Irrespective of how you label the devices, a consumer making a decision compares the two devices at hand.
  - ygra 14y ago
    MS never built their own computers, so that's a first there. Also while they tried to market Tablet PCs a decade ago it was always trying to make normal Windows work with a pen (although their handwriting recognition is the best I've ever used). So Metro-or-whatever-it's-called-now is a radical departure from that as well. I would indeed label the Surface as a Version 1, both in terms of hardware and software.
- babesh 14y ago
  Check out this awesome article on tablets from Tadhg Kelly: http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/10/27/tablet-first-mobile-second/ http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/10/27/tablet-first-mobile-secon... Makes the case that tablets can provide different value from phones.
megablast 14y ago
What is the deal with people running around decrying the fact that people compare the surface and the iPad. Of course you can compare them. Microsoft might not want you to, but they will be compared. Not many people are going to get both. They are both tablets. And just like every other consumer, you need to compare the latest iPad with the latest surface. Not many people care about your excuses. Why are there so many Microsoft apologists out this week? Yes, there are advantages to the Surface, this should have been the focus of your reply.
- corporalagumbo 14y ago
  I think it's fair to point out that the Surface and Windows 8 are both v1, and that Microsoft will clearly work on improving them rapidly. They have a lot of rough spots now but the situation could be very different in two or three years. This doesn't mean that you should ignore either product's current problems of course. The iPhone wasn't perfect when it came out either.
pnathan 14y ago
> I got a chance to use the Surface today and the thing that I came away with was that this could be a person's only computer. As an example, you can browse the file system, run desktop apps, and copy files to external storage. That's kiiiinda cool. Marco said that the Surface felt like a computer (is that a bad thing), and it sounded pretty good to me. I use an iPhone now and its artificial limitations are kind of ridiculous. If/when I snag a tablet, I'll be hard at work making it work like a computer - just a hand-held one.
tluyben2 14y ago
A few people said it already, but if you get into a store which is not smack in the middle of a tech startup area of a city (where the rest of the world lives), you'll see people browsing tablets (and laptops) in a very similar way; they walk and try Androids and iPads (and Surface?) in one go. They want a tablet as they have some purpose for it or they don't need a desktop of laptop (the latter becoming more and more relevant every day; I see a lot of non tech people pick up iPads or the more expensive Androids instead of laptops). If they had a brand in mind they most likely will buy that, but, as I frequent large stores in different countries, I see people (young and old) just touching 5-6 of them before buying. I really don't think anyone gives a crap about 1st/2nd/whatever generation or whatever software. They'll buy what they like then and there. So MS SHOULD be on par with the latest iPad, hardware and software OR have prices comparable with discounter Androids. I see it as a hard sale for non techies otherwise. They compare their 'feeling' when touching it, browsing apps, browsing the web, playing a game and watching video. And then they compare price. So I agree apples and oranges on a tech point of view, but business wise who cares; it's a bad comparison only on price (compared to cheap Android pads), on features no-one cares; you pick what's better for that price.
bjustin 14y ago
>As an example, you can browse the file system, Yes, unlike the iPad you can access the filesystem OOTB. >run desktop apps, No, you can't. Office and (I think) Notepad and Paint are the only desktop apps you can run on the Surface with Windows RT. >The other thing I came away with was that Microsoft is open and Apple is closed. Why can't I plug a microSD card into any Apple product? Why can't I plug in a USB device? You can plug your camera into the Surface (it's a host) and download pictures to your local machine. You can't use an SD card as additional storage, but you can import pictures from a camera over USB or directly from an SD card, using the $30 camera connection kit. The USB port on the camera connection kit can be used for other purposes as well, for example MIDI keyboards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Pwa3SbFFE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Pwa3SbFFE Not the same as having a USB port included, but the iPad is more capable than you make it out to be.

by Todd 14y ago

babesh 14y ago

It is not apples and oranges. People making a utility-based purchasing decision can only compare the 1st generation Surface to the 4th generation iPad. The amount of R&D has no relevance to a consumer. The relevant thing is how much value the device provides. I agree that the expectation and advantage is to have your tablet serve as your one and only computer. But this will never be actually true since most people will actually have to carry around a phone (or phablet). The portability and availability of a phone will beat out that of a tablet. Try jogging with a tablet. What a tablet currently buys you is a larger screen and a keyboard that you can type on for awhile. A truer statement may be that this tablet's aim is to take on additional functionality found in desktops and laptops and not found in other tablets. In Microsoft's mind, that functionality is Office and access the file system. You can plug in microSD and USD into an iPad. You need the accessories. Agree that they don't let you use external storage. If you want open computing, you shouldn't be picking Microsoft, nor Apple, nor Google. Are you saying that you want to depend on an entity whose sole purpose is to make money to supply you with open source code in the long run? How about Oracle with Java? Or Compuserve with gif? Corporations don't even trust other corporations with key technologies without making them open source or FRAND. If you truly want open source, you should be branching Android and replacing or removing Google services with open source alternatives.

lostlogin 14y ago
Well, you disagree with Microsoft. As an exec said here (sorry to link to BGR) http://bgr.com/2012/10/25/microsoft-executive-mundie-interview-cyber-crime-stalled-smartphones/ http://bgr.com/2012/10/25/microsoft-executive-mundie-intervi... MS lead the way with tablets and touch based systems. If they were first, the surface isn't version 1.
- babesh 14y ago
  That's quibbling. Irrespective of how you label the devices, a consumer making a decision compares the two devices at hand.
- ygra 14y ago
  MS never built their own computers, so that's a first there. Also while they tried to market Tablet PCs a decade ago it was always trying to make normal Windows work with a pen (although their handwriting recognition is the best I've ever used). So Metro-or-whatever-it's-called-now is a radical departure from that as well. I would indeed label the Surface as a Version 1, both in terms of hardware and software.
babesh 14y ago
Check out this awesome article on tablets from Tadhg Kelly: http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/10/27/tablet-first-mobile-second/ http://m.techcrunch.com/2012/10/27/tablet-first-mobile-secon... Makes the case that tablets can provide different value from phones.

megablast 14y ago

What is the deal with people running around decrying the fact that people compare the surface and the iPad. Of course you can compare them. Microsoft might not want you to, but they will be compared. Not many people are going to get both. They are both tablets. And just like every other consumer, you need to compare the latest iPad with the latest surface. Not many people care about your excuses. Why are there so many Microsoft apologists out this week? Yes, there are advantages to the Surface, this should have been the focus of your reply.

corporalagumbo 14y ago
I think it's fair to point out that the Surface and Windows 8 are both v1, and that Microsoft will clearly work on improving them rapidly. They have a lot of rough spots now but the situation could be very different in two or three years. This doesn't mean that you should ignore either product's current problems of course. The iPhone wasn't perfect when it came out either.

pnathan 14y ago

> I got a chance to use the Surface today and the thing that I came away with was that this could be a person's only computer. As an example, you can browse the file system, run desktop apps, and copy files to external storage. That's kiiiinda cool. Marco said that the Surface felt like a computer (is that a bad thing), and it sounded pretty good to me. I use an iPhone now and its artificial limitations are kind of ridiculous. If/when I snag a tablet, I'll be hard at work making it work like a computer - just a hand-held one.

tluyben2 14y ago

A few people said it already, but if you get into a store which is not smack in the middle of a tech startup area of a city (where the rest of the world lives), you'll see people browsing tablets (and laptops) in a very similar way; they walk and try Androids and iPads (and Surface?) in one go. They want a tablet as they have some purpose for it or they don't need a desktop of laptop (the latter becoming more and more relevant every day; I see a lot of non tech people pick up iPads or the more expensive Androids instead of laptops). If they had a brand in mind they most likely will buy that, but, as I frequent large stores in different countries, I see people (young and old) just touching 5-6 of them before buying. I really don't think anyone gives a crap about 1st/2nd/whatever generation or whatever software. They'll buy what they like then and there. So MS SHOULD be on par with the latest iPad, hardware and software OR have prices comparable with discounter Androids. I see it as a hard sale for non techies otherwise. They compare their 'feeling' when touching it, browsing apps, browsing the web, playing a game and watching video. And then they compare price. So I agree apples and oranges on a tech point of view, but business wise who cares; it's a bad comparison only on price (compared to cheap Android pads), on features no-one cares; you pick what's better for that price.

bjustin 14y ago

>As an example, you can browse the file system, Yes, unlike the iPad you can access the filesystem OOTB. >run desktop apps, No, you can't. Office and (I think) Notepad and Paint are the only desktop apps you can run on the Surface with Windows RT. >The other thing I came away with was that Microsoft is open and Apple is closed. Why can't I plug a microSD card into any Apple product? Why can't I plug in a USB device? You can plug your camera into the Surface (it's a host) and download pictures to your local machine. You can't use an SD card as additional storage, but you can import pictures from a camera over USB or directly from an SD card, using the $30 camera connection kit. The USB port on the camera connection kit can be used for other purposes as well, for example MIDI keyboards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Pwa3SbFFE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Pwa3SbFFE Not the same as having a USB port included, but the iPad is more capable than you make it out to be.