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> He mostly stole it from his idiotic voter base, so it's a net positive in my book. Have some empathy. With your attitude, we'll have many more Trumps to come

> He mostly stole it from his idiotic voter base, so it's a net positive in my book. Have some empathy. With your attitude, we'll have many more Trumps to come.

xrd 9mo ago
I agree with your sentiment but I no longer think empathy is a good long term plan. One of my favorite books is Excellent Cadavers. It's about two judges in Sicily who systematically rooted out the Mafia. And were both assassinated for their work. The moral is: action is necessary. Trump is hoping we all stop at trying to find empathy for his team.
- palmotea 9mo ago
  > Trump is hoping we all stop at trying to find empathy for his team. I'm not talking about his team, I'm talking about the people who voted for him. For instance, he wouldn't have even got off the ground if free trade hadn't decimated the US manufacturing sector. I won't fault anyone with a blue-collar job for voting for him, because the choice was him vs. some neoliberal. When the choices are bad, I understand making a desperate move. And now we have even worse polarization, which fuels his type even more. More and deeper polarized "action" (like the snide remark I responded to upthread) is not the way to make things better.
  - xrd 9mo ago
    That's a good point. I totally agree.
  - atmavatar 9mo ago
    > For instance, he wouldn't have even got off the ground if free trade hadn't decimated the US manufacturing sector. I won't fault anyone with a blue-collar job for voting for him, because the choice was him vs. some neoliberal. And I would agree with you for the 2016 election. However, when Trump lost more manufacturing jobs under his first term than were lost under Obama despite all his bluster about saving and restoring said jobs, and his administration's only legislative win was a big tax cut for the wealthy, it's no longer a valid reason to vote for the guy in 2020 or 2024. And, the joke's on any who did vote for him a second and third time: he's lost even more manufacturing jobs. The tragedy is if you look at the actual data, manufacturing jobs generally recover under Democrat administrations, and they tend to be lost in significant numbers under Republican administrations. People are more easily swayed by memes and sound bites than actual data, though. See: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp
thrance 9mo ago
Empathy is deserved. I have none for the lunatics that defended the recent ICE murders or still try to deny Trump's pedophila. If these people finally realize how garbage their views are, maybe we could think about forgiveness and empathy. Until then, disenfranchisement is the most efficient strategy.
- palmotea 9mo ago
  > Empathy is deserved. I have none for the lunatics that defended the recent ICE murders or still try to deny Trump's pedophila. If these people finally realize how garbage their views are, maybe we could think about forgiveness and empathy. Until then, disenfranchisement is the most efficient strategy. That's some pretty messed up shit you wrote there. I'm sure you imagine yourself as somehow better than Trump, but you're just like him. You're part of the problem, and for the sake of all that is good: stop being such a terrible person. Also, what you wrote is also embarrassingly dumb and short-sighted. Like, do you have any understanding how your ideas sound outside your own head? Saying such things, especially in public, harms your cause.
  - thrance 9mo ago
    Far from "harming my cause", vindictiveness wins elections. Weakness toward the fascist idiots currently tearing this world appart only made them stronger, and worsened the situation. I have empathy for those wronged by our messed up economic systems, and I believe the policies and candidates I advocate for will help everyone in the end, but I reserve the right to not extend my empathy to those who consistently chose mindless hate over actual solutions. At some point, there must be consequences for siding with these evil fucks over and over and over again. Let these consequences be a very negative public perception of the views they hold, which is very much deserved at this point. Also, I am absolutely better than Trump and his supporters: I'm not a child rapist and I don't support those who are. And even suggesting that calling out pedophilia is equivalent to practicing it is very messed up.
    - palmotea 9mo ago
      > Far from "harming my cause", vindictiveness wins elections. If it does, it's a pyrrhic victory. You'll complete the destruction of everything the Democrats claim to defend. > Weakness toward the fascist idiots currently tearing this world appart only made them stronger, and worsened the situation. Has Donald Trump corrupted you, turning you into your own kind of fascist? That kind of strong(=being vindictive)/weak binary thinking is very Trumpian. > but I reserve the right to not extend my empathy to those who consistently chose mindless hate over actual solutions. FYI, that's what one kind of mindless hate looks like to the hater. Especially since you're being very broad with it (e.g. including "his idotic voter base"). > Also, I am absolutely better than Trump and his supporters: I'm not a child rapist and I don't support those who are. I don't think so: the vast majority of Trump's supporters are also not child rapists and don't support those who are. I'd suggest you give politics a rest, unless you want to turn into what you seem to despise.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]

> He mostly stole it from his idiotic voter base, so it's a net positive in my book. Have some empathy. With your attitude, we'll have many more Trumps to come.

xrd 9mo ago

I agree with your sentiment but I no longer think empathy is a good long term plan. One of my favorite books is Excellent Cadavers. It's about two judges in Sicily who systematically rooted out the Mafia. And were both assassinated for their work. The moral is: action is necessary. Trump is hoping we all stop at trying to find empathy for his team.

palmotea 9mo ago
> Trump is hoping we all stop at trying to find empathy for his team. I'm not talking about his team, I'm talking about the people who voted for him. For instance, he wouldn't have even got off the ground if free trade hadn't decimated the US manufacturing sector. I won't fault anyone with a blue-collar job for voting for him, because the choice was him vs. some neoliberal. When the choices are bad, I understand making a desperate move. And now we have even worse polarization, which fuels his type even more. More and deeper polarized "action" (like the snide remark I responded to upthread) is not the way to make things better.
- xrd 9mo ago
  That's a good point. I totally agree.
- atmavatar 9mo ago
  > For instance, he wouldn't have even got off the ground if free trade hadn't decimated the US manufacturing sector. I won't fault anyone with a blue-collar job for voting for him, because the choice was him vs. some neoliberal. And I would agree with you for the 2016 election. However, when Trump lost more manufacturing jobs under his first term than were lost under Obama despite all his bluster about saving and restoring said jobs, and his administration's only legislative win was a big tax cut for the wealthy, it's no longer a valid reason to vote for the guy in 2020 or 2024. And, the joke's on any who did vote for him a second and third time: he's lost even more manufacturing jobs. The tragedy is if you look at the actual data, manufacturing jobs generally recover under Democrat administrations, and they tend to be lost in significant numbers under Republican administrations. People are more easily swayed by memes and sound bites than actual data, though. See: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp

thrance 9mo ago

Empathy is deserved. I have none for the lunatics that defended the recent ICE murders or still try to deny Trump's pedophila. If these people finally realize how garbage their views are, maybe we could think about forgiveness and empathy. Until then, disenfranchisement is the most efficient strategy.

palmotea 9mo ago
> Empathy is deserved. I have none for the lunatics that defended the recent ICE murders or still try to deny Trump's pedophila. If these people finally realize how garbage their views are, maybe we could think about forgiveness and empathy. Until then, disenfranchisement is the most efficient strategy. That's some pretty messed up shit you wrote there. I'm sure you imagine yourself as somehow better than Trump, but you're just like him. You're part of the problem, and for the sake of all that is good: stop being such a terrible person. Also, what you wrote is also embarrassingly dumb and short-sighted. Like, do you have any understanding how your ideas sound outside your own head? Saying such things, especially in public, harms your cause.
- thrance 9mo ago
  Far from "harming my cause", vindictiveness wins elections. Weakness toward the fascist idiots currently tearing this world appart only made them stronger, and worsened the situation. I have empathy for those wronged by our messed up economic systems, and I believe the policies and candidates I advocate for will help everyone in the end, but I reserve the right to not extend my empathy to those who consistently chose mindless hate over actual solutions. At some point, there must be consequences for siding with these evil fucks over and over and over again. Let these consequences be a very negative public perception of the views they hold, which is very much deserved at this point. Also, I am absolutely better than Trump and his supporters: I'm not a child rapist and I don't support those who are. And even suggesting that calling out pedophilia is equivalent to practicing it is very messed up.
  - palmotea 9mo ago
    > Far from "harming my cause", vindictiveness wins elections. If it does, it's a pyrrhic victory. You'll complete the destruction of everything the Democrats claim to defend. > Weakness toward the fascist idiots currently tearing this world appart only made them stronger, and worsened the situation. Has Donald Trump corrupted you, turning you into your own kind of fascist? That kind of strong(=being vindictive)/weak binary thinking is very Trumpian. > but I reserve the right to not extend my empathy to those who consistently chose mindless hate over actual solutions. FYI, that's what one kind of mindless hate looks like to the hater. Especially since you're being very broad with it (e.g. including "his idotic voter base"). > Also, I am absolutely better than Trump and his supporters: I'm not a child rapist and I don't support those who are. I don't think so: the vast majority of Trump's supporters are also not child rapists and don't support those who are. I'd suggest you give politics a rest, unless you want to turn into what you seem to despise.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]