6 ms·

Because it is enshrined in the 13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have b

by 1970-01-01 9mo ago

Because it is enshrined in the 13th Amendment: Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, *except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted*, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.”

MSFT_Edging 9mo ago
Probably an Amendment that needs amending. It was used en masse with turn of the century vagrancy laws to arrest Black people who didn't have enough cash on hand, then send them to other states to work and/or die in coal mines as essentially slave labor. Even happened to children who committed minor crimes. The 13th Amendment provides incentive to incarcerate, and with private prison industries existing period, that incentive probably should not exist at all.
- MiiMe19 9mo ago
  If you commit a crime tough it out and dont do it again lol.
  - goodmythical 9mo ago
    What about for the tens of thousands that are demonstrably innocent and still serving time? Every single innocence project has years or decades of backlogged cases.
    - MiiMe19 8mo ago
      Usually they did it. Dont be so suspicious you get convicted by a jury of your peers. We need more people in prison, not less.
  - MSFT_Edging 8mo ago
    You're an unserious clown.
  - OutOfHere 8mo ago
    You are basically supporting slavery. This support is in no way appropriate, not even on race grounds, because it doesn't discriminate by race. It's worse because slavery is a harmful incentive to keep people UNFAIRLY imprisoned.
- kcplate 8mo ago
  > Probably an Amendment that needs amending. Good luck, the US is still trying to get the equal rights amendment (which everyone basically agrees with) ratified for going on 54 years now. I cant imagine the process gyrations and political wrangling it would take to convince our political leadership in congress and basically every red state legislature to take on a new amendment specifically tuned just towards prisoner’s rights.
NoMoreNicksLeft 9mo ago
>Because it is enshrined in the 13th Amendment: Permitted, not "enshrined". It doesn't mandate it, it allows it. And despite being allowed, all US convicts are paid wages. No one is sentenced to labor, hard or otherwise.
- burkaman 9mo ago
  The "wages" are typically something like 25 cents per hour, often much less than that. The work is mandatory, and sentences can be extended if you refuse to work, so they effectively are sentenced to labor.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 9mo ago
    [flagged]
    - burkaman 9mo ago
      I know it's hard to believe but I am not lying. Work is mandatory and refusal is punishable with harsher conditions and/or longer imprisonment. Here are a few examples. Alabama: Refusing to work is a "medium-level violation", which can be punished by forfeiting good time, which extends their sentence. See https://governor.alabama.gov/assets/2023/01/EO-725-Good-Time-Reform.pdf https://governor.alabama.gov/assets/2023/01/EO-725-Good-Time..., https://www.al.com/news/2025/12/alabama-prison-inmates-lose-in-what-they-call-fight-against-modern-day-slavery.html https://www.al.com/news/2025/12/alabama-prison-inmates-lose-... Louisiana: Inmates are often sent to solitary confinement (among other punishments) if they refuse to work. https://apnews.com/article/prisons-labor-lawsuit-investigation-b41d72f87dc22e0a351a1a8f5345b9bc https://apnews.com/article/prisons-labor-lawsuit-investigati... Tennessee: "Any prisoner who refuses to participate in such programs when work is available shall have any sentence reduction credits received pursuant to the provisions of T.C.A. § 41-2-123 or T.C.A. § 41-2-146 reduced by two days of credit for each one day of refusal to work. [...] Pursuant to T.C.A. § 41-2-120(a), any prisoner refusing to work or becoming disorderly may be confined in solitary confinement or subjected to such other punishment, not inconsistent with humanity, as may be deemed necessary by the sheriff for the control of the prisoners, including reducing sentence credits pursuant to the procedure established in T.C.A. § 41-2-111. Such prisoners refusing to work, or while in solitary confinement, shall receive no credit for the time so spent. T.C.A. § 41-2-120(b)." This whole page is a particularly horrific read. https://www.ctas.tennessee.edu/eli/punishment-refusing-work https://www.ctas.tennessee.edu/eli/punishment-refusing-work > Why should a felon be permitted to earn whatever it is that you think they should be paid (the wages of a free man)? Yes, anyone working should be paid at least minimum wage. If we don't think they should earn that much then we simply shouldn't allow them to work. It should not be legal to force anyone to work (I know this will require a constitutional amendment to enforce). The reason, beyond the obvious that slavery is immoral, is that allowing forced labor for close to zero pay incentivizes incarcerating more people for longer sentences to increase the size of this nearly free labor pool.

MSFT_Edging 9mo ago

Probably an Amendment that needs amending. It was used en masse with turn of the century vagrancy laws to arrest Black people who didn't have enough cash on hand, then send them to other states to work and/or die in coal mines as essentially slave labor. Even happened to children who committed minor crimes. The 13th Amendment provides incentive to incarcerate, and with private prison industries existing period, that incentive probably should not exist at all.

MiiMe19 9mo ago
If you commit a crime tough it out and dont do it again lol.
- goodmythical 9mo ago
  What about for the tens of thousands that are demonstrably innocent and still serving time? Every single innocence project has years or decades of backlogged cases.
  - MiiMe19 8mo ago
    Usually they did it. Dont be so suspicious you get convicted by a jury of your peers. We need more people in prison, not less.
- MSFT_Edging 8mo ago
  You're an unserious clown.
- OutOfHere 8mo ago
  You are basically supporting slavery. This support is in no way appropriate, not even on race grounds, because it doesn't discriminate by race. It's worse because slavery is a harmful incentive to keep people UNFAIRLY imprisoned.
kcplate 8mo ago
> Probably an Amendment that needs amending. Good luck, the US is still trying to get the equal rights amendment (which everyone basically agrees with) ratified for going on 54 years now. I cant imagine the process gyrations and political wrangling it would take to convince our political leadership in congress and basically every red state legislature to take on a new amendment specifically tuned just towards prisoner’s rights.

NoMoreNicksLeft 9mo ago

>Because it is enshrined in the 13th Amendment: Permitted, not "enshrined". It doesn't mandate it, it allows it. And despite being allowed, all US convicts are paid wages. No one is sentenced to labor, hard or otherwise.

burkaman 9mo ago
The "wages" are typically something like 25 cents per hour, often much less than that. The work is mandatory, and sentences can be extended if you refuse to work, so they effectively are sentenced to labor.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 9mo ago
  [flagged]
  - burkaman 9mo ago
    I know it's hard to believe but I am not lying. Work is mandatory and refusal is punishable with harsher conditions and/or longer imprisonment. Here are a few examples. Alabama: Refusing to work is a "medium-level violation", which can be punished by forfeiting good time, which extends their sentence. See https://governor.alabama.gov/assets/2023/01/EO-725-Good-Time-Reform.pdf https://governor.alabama.gov/assets/2023/01/EO-725-Good-Time..., https://www.al.com/news/2025/12/alabama-prison-inmates-lose-in-what-they-call-fight-against-modern-day-slavery.html https://www.al.com/news/2025/12/alabama-prison-inmates-lose-... Louisiana: Inmates are often sent to solitary confinement (among other punishments) if they refuse to work. https://apnews.com/article/prisons-labor-lawsuit-investigation-b41d72f87dc22e0a351a1a8f5345b9bc https://apnews.com/article/prisons-labor-lawsuit-investigati... Tennessee: "Any prisoner who refuses to participate in such programs when work is available shall have any sentence reduction credits received pursuant to the provisions of T.C.A. § 41-2-123 or T.C.A. § 41-2-146 reduced by two days of credit for each one day of refusal to work. [...] Pursuant to T.C.A. § 41-2-120(a), any prisoner refusing to work or becoming disorderly may be confined in solitary confinement or subjected to such other punishment, not inconsistent with humanity, as may be deemed necessary by the sheriff for the control of the prisoners, including reducing sentence credits pursuant to the procedure established in T.C.A. § 41-2-111. Such prisoners refusing to work, or while in solitary confinement, shall receive no credit for the time so spent. T.C.A. § 41-2-120(b)." This whole page is a particularly horrific read. https://www.ctas.tennessee.edu/eli/punishment-refusing-work https://www.ctas.tennessee.edu/eli/punishment-refusing-work > Why should a felon be permitted to earn whatever it is that you think they should be paid (the wages of a free man)? Yes, anyone working should be paid at least minimum wage. If we don't think they should earn that much then we simply shouldn't allow them to work. It should not be legal to force anyone to work (I know this will require a constitutional amendment to enforce). The reason, beyond the obvious that slavery is immoral, is that allowing forced labor for close to zero pay incentivizes incarcerating more people for longer sentences to increase the size of this nearly free labor pool.