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That's why it should be a one time event in conjunction with reworking the whole system. Why can I, as an 18 year old, sign for a loan that _cannot_ be forgive

That's why it should be a one time event in conjunction with reworking the whole system. Why can I, as an 18 year old, sign for a loan that _cannot_ be forgiven, graduate into a crashed economy, and still be held accountable for choices that impact me when I only had a small part in them? The system needs reformed, and we need to do something for the people still on the hook of the old system (and I say this as someone who has paid off all my student loans).

chasd00 8mo ago
As a parent of a 16 and almost 14 year old i'm effectively home schooling personal finance with them. My wife and I got none from our parents and were preyed upon constantly. I think I was 45 when i finally got my student loans paid off. My wife did many years in a dangerous, low-performing, HS as a teacher to get hers forgiven. Sending an 18 year old off to college without a solid understanding of finance is like throwing an 18 year old in the ocean while bleeding profusely and tasking them with swimming to shore, maybe a couple make it but the sharks will get the rest.
- WalterBright 8mo ago
  It's a crying shame that public high schools do not teach basic finance, basic accounting, and how a business works. In other words, they don't teach anything about how our economy works.
  - jancsika 8mo ago
    https://www.wunc.org/show/due-south/2024-06-10/personal-finance-course-required-to-earn-high-school-diploma-for-ncs-public-school-class-of-2024 https://www.wunc.org/show/due-south/2024-06-10/personal-fina...
  - bdangubic 8mo ago
    they do. maybe not where you live but they do. my kid has had personal finance classes since 4th grade
    - WalterBright 8mo ago
      I attended 4 different public schools growing up, and none of them did. I see that some today do. But I still see college graduates ranting on X who clearly do not understand compound interest on their student loans.
AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
> Why can I, as an 18 year old, sign for a loan that _cannot_ be forgiven, graduate into a crashed economy, and still be held accountable for choices that impact me when I only had a small part in them? Because you took the money promising to pay it back, spent it on something you wanted, and now it's gone and someone has to pay the money you spent. It's like saying why can I, as an 18 year old, purposely drive a car into someone else's house, cause six figures in costs, and then be expected to be on the hook for that because auto liability insurance doesn't cover intentional acts? You're the one who chose to do that. The price of tuition and the expectation that you pay back the money are not secrets kept from you until after you've already signed, or if they somehow are then maybe fix that.
- thatcat 8mo ago
  The money can't be spent on a house or any useful asset that could be resold. They wouldn't give you a loan for that at 18 because it'd be irresponsible since they know you don't know anything about finance or economics as you likely don't have an education yet. They'll give you a high interest credit card with a 500 dollar limit to buy what you want though.
  - AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
    They give you the loan because the asset is you. In general if you get a degree, your future earnings increase by more than the cost of the degree. The "problem" is that if you don't pay a mortgage the bank takes the house, but the only thing for them to take if you don't pay your student loans is your future earnings, which is just the thing where you have to pay back the loan.
    - thatcat 8mo ago
      A educational program using "your future earnings" as collateral only really has a claim to some percentage of the delta between what you earn and what you would earn without the degree (after 4 years experience), which would incentivize them to not to structure programs in a wasteful manner or misrepresent the future economic value of a given program. In many cases, that delta is negative. The school and lender should at least be forced to disclose that reality when you're filing FAFSA and taking secured loans.
WalterBright 8mo ago
Why should other people be on the hook for your decisions?
- bombcar 8mo ago
  If there are decisions that are so bad people shouldn't be on the hook for them, we should prohibit those decisions. Banning credit for a large portion of the population would be a net good but we can't have that conversation.
  - WalterBright 8mo ago
    I'm not suggesting banning credit. A deal between loaner and borrower should be a free agreement between them, not something imposed by the government.
- drakythe 8mo ago
  Thanks to the crashed economy I was on the hook for hundreds of other people’s bad decisions and the degree I went for did not result in a job despite prospects being more than good when I began the program. People who want loan forgiveness anbd to rework the financial aid system aren’t looking for a get out of jail free card, they’re looking yo even the playing field a bit.
scottyah 8mo ago
Same reason you can sign up for war, or ride a bike without a helmet (in some places). The world is a dangerous place and the less legislation we have blocking people from making decisions, the more likely they are to be capable of making their own. In 2009 when I graduated, it was common knowledge that any private colleges or abnormal degrees were an oddity only for rich people to buy a piece of paper for their more disappointing kids. I don't know what changed (or if it was just localized), but whoever convinced you to go for the scam is at fault here in your circumstance- not the "system" for allowing other people to benefit. It's a bunch of able-bodied people who took the elevator instead of stairs thinking it was a shortcut, but the effort put in was the whole point. Anyone who told you otherwise is to blame. Punishing people who took the stairs sends a clear message to everyone else deciding which way to go.

chasd00 8mo ago

As a parent of a 16 and almost 14 year old i'm effectively home schooling personal finance with them. My wife and I got none from our parents and were preyed upon constantly. I think I was 45 when i finally got my student loans paid off. My wife did many years in a dangerous, low-performing, HS as a teacher to get hers forgiven. Sending an 18 year old off to college without a solid understanding of finance is like throwing an 18 year old in the ocean while bleeding profusely and tasking them with swimming to shore, maybe a couple make it but the sharks will get the rest.

WalterBright 8mo ago
It's a crying shame that public high schools do not teach basic finance, basic accounting, and how a business works. In other words, they don't teach anything about how our economy works.
- jancsika 8mo ago
  https://www.wunc.org/show/due-south/2024-06-10/personal-finance-course-required-to-earn-high-school-diploma-for-ncs-public-school-class-of-2024 https://www.wunc.org/show/due-south/2024-06-10/personal-fina...
- bdangubic 8mo ago
  they do. maybe not where you live but they do. my kid has had personal finance classes since 4th grade
  - WalterBright 8mo ago
    I attended 4 different public schools growing up, and none of them did. I see that some today do. But I still see college graduates ranting on X who clearly do not understand compound interest on their student loans.

AnthonyMouse 8mo ago

> Why can I, as an 18 year old, sign for a loan that _cannot_ be forgiven, graduate into a crashed economy, and still be held accountable for choices that impact me when I only had a small part in them? Because you took the money promising to pay it back, spent it on something you wanted, and now it's gone and someone has to pay the money you spent. It's like saying why can I, as an 18 year old, purposely drive a car into someone else's house, cause six figures in costs, and then be expected to be on the hook for that because auto liability insurance doesn't cover intentional acts? You're the one who chose to do that. The price of tuition and the expectation that you pay back the money are not secrets kept from you until after you've already signed, or if they somehow are then maybe fix that.

thatcat 8mo ago
The money can't be spent on a house or any useful asset that could be resold. They wouldn't give you a loan for that at 18 because it'd be irresponsible since they know you don't know anything about finance or economics as you likely don't have an education yet. They'll give you a high interest credit card with a 500 dollar limit to buy what you want though.
- AnthonyMouse 8mo ago
  They give you the loan because the asset is you. In general if you get a degree, your future earnings increase by more than the cost of the degree. The "problem" is that if you don't pay a mortgage the bank takes the house, but the only thing for them to take if you don't pay your student loans is your future earnings, which is just the thing where you have to pay back the loan.
  - thatcat 8mo ago
    A educational program using "your future earnings" as collateral only really has a claim to some percentage of the delta between what you earn and what you would earn without the degree (after 4 years experience), which would incentivize them to not to structure programs in a wasteful manner or misrepresent the future economic value of a given program. In many cases, that delta is negative. The school and lender should at least be forced to disclose that reality when you're filing FAFSA and taking secured loans.

WalterBright 8mo ago

Why should other people be on the hook for your decisions?

bombcar 8mo ago
If there are decisions that are so bad people shouldn't be on the hook for them, we should prohibit those decisions. Banning credit for a large portion of the population would be a net good but we can't have that conversation.
- WalterBright 8mo ago
  I'm not suggesting banning credit. A deal between loaner and borrower should be a free agreement between them, not something imposed by the government.
drakythe 8mo ago
Thanks to the crashed economy I was on the hook for hundreds of other people’s bad decisions and the degree I went for did not result in a job despite prospects being more than good when I began the program. People who want loan forgiveness anbd to rework the financial aid system aren’t looking for a get out of jail free card, they’re looking yo even the playing field a bit.

scottyah 8mo ago

Same reason you can sign up for war, or ride a bike without a helmet (in some places). The world is a dangerous place and the less legislation we have blocking people from making decisions, the more likely they are to be capable of making their own. In 2009 when I graduated, it was common knowledge that any private colleges or abnormal degrees were an oddity only for rich people to buy a piece of paper for their more disappointing kids. I don't know what changed (or if it was just localized), but whoever convinced you to go for the scam is at fault here in your circumstance- not the "system" for allowing other people to benefit. It's a bunch of able-bodied people who took the elevator instead of stairs thinking it was a shortcut, but the effort put in was the whole point. Anyone who told you otherwise is to blame. Punishing people who took the stairs sends a clear message to everyone else deciding which way to go.