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I agree with you about student loan forgiveness, but disagree with your assessment of universities as a system. The humanities (which are highly profitable for

I agree with you about student loan forgiveness, but disagree with your assessment of universities as a system. The humanities (which are highly profitable for the university) are suffering an existential crisis because their funding keeps getting cut, while STEM programs (which have low or even negative ROI after lab/equipment/resource costs) keep getting expanded. There's obviously more nuance to that, but at a high level, universities are prioritizing majors which have higher job placement at the expense of their own bottom line.

PlatoIsADisease 8mo ago
Is this actually true? I think about my lab classes and typically these were separate credit hours. More money to the university. Outside chemistry, we were using outdated equipment that wasn't getting refreshed/bought new. If what you are saying is true, Humanities needs to cut costs of their credit hours or double down. For entertainment degrees (art, music), its prohibitively expensive to casually obtain the education. For business/politics/psychology, there is at least some sort of return on investment to be expected.
- Starman_Jones 8mo ago
  "Labs" as in the physical facilities, not the class credits. Computer labs are one example - my school had a Linux lab that, uh, wasn't much used outside of CS/IT/maybe EE. There's also lab equipment for research professors - a nice oscilloscope can cost more than a new car, and students won't ever actually get to use that. Not saying it's wrong - I really appreciated that Linux lab - but it's definitely not equality between departments. For your second point, I've never heard of a university that charges different credit rates for different majors (outside of special stuff like paying for certain PE classes), but that seems like it would be a university policy, not a department policy.
  - patmorgan23 8mo ago
    [dead]
LanceH 8mo ago
How about clawbacks from the universities.
- Braxton1980 8mo ago
  For all loans? What if a person takes a loan to get into a medical program but can't find a job after and defaults the loan. Is the university responsible? The arguments seem to be based on majors that have a poor job market.
- gruez 8mo ago
  Seems massively unconstitutional to retroactively impose penalties, especially if the previous behavior didn't violate any laws. Not to mention the reputational risk on the trustworthiness of US as a place to do business and the risk of abuse from future administrations. You might cheer that universities are getting their just desserts for scamming students, but your political adversaries might use it to claw back funding from universities for being too "woke" or whatever.
  - LanceH 8mo ago
    > Seems massively unconstitutional to retroactively impose penalties For existing agreements, of course. Going forward, for those who are the real beneficiaries of the loans, they should have a skin in the game. Why aren't universities standing behind their product and offering financing without the unusual non-dischargeable nature of the loans? Do they not stand behind their products?

PlatoIsADisease 8mo ago

Is this actually true? I think about my lab classes and typically these were separate credit hours. More money to the university. Outside chemistry, we were using outdated equipment that wasn't getting refreshed/bought new. If what you are saying is true, Humanities needs to cut costs of their credit hours or double down. For entertainment degrees (art, music), its prohibitively expensive to casually obtain the education. For business/politics/psychology, there is at least some sort of return on investment to be expected.

Starman_Jones 8mo ago
"Labs" as in the physical facilities, not the class credits. Computer labs are one example - my school had a Linux lab that, uh, wasn't much used outside of CS/IT/maybe EE. There's also lab equipment for research professors - a nice oscilloscope can cost more than a new car, and students won't ever actually get to use that. Not saying it's wrong - I really appreciated that Linux lab - but it's definitely not equality between departments. For your second point, I've never heard of a university that charges different credit rates for different majors (outside of special stuff like paying for certain PE classes), but that seems like it would be a university policy, not a department policy.
- patmorgan23 8mo ago
  [dead]

LanceH 8mo ago

How about clawbacks from the universities.

Braxton1980 8mo ago
For all loans? What if a person takes a loan to get into a medical program but can't find a job after and defaults the loan. Is the university responsible? The arguments seem to be based on majors that have a poor job market.
gruez 8mo ago
Seems massively unconstitutional to retroactively impose penalties, especially if the previous behavior didn't violate any laws. Not to mention the reputational risk on the trustworthiness of US as a place to do business and the risk of abuse from future administrations. You might cheer that universities are getting their just desserts for scamming students, but your political adversaries might use it to claw back funding from universities for being too "woke" or whatever.
- LanceH 8mo ago
  > Seems massively unconstitutional to retroactively impose penalties For existing agreements, of course. Going forward, for those who are the real beneficiaries of the loans, they should have a skin in the game. Why aren't universities standing behind their product and offering financing without the unusual non-dischargeable nature of the loans? Do they not stand behind their products?