8 ms·

Uber Co-Founder Garrett Camp Launches BlackJet, The "Uber For Private Jets"

63 points by kloncks 14y ago

jacques_chester 14y ago
This strikes me as a good idea, on paper. If I may play the traditional role of first-comment-is-negative however: 1. NetJets are a fractional ownership company who are probably going to remain more popular at this level of society because they're a full service outfit; 2. Charter companies already run their planes efficiently, so they may be in a position to match on price on some routes; 3. I suspect that for a lot of really really rich people, owning a plane is not a purely financial decision. It's a status signal. All that being said ... it might just work by creating a new market segment -- people who can afford business or first class but can't quite justify private charters. I think people on HN sometimes underestimate the importance of the middleman in economic life. You don't have to be B2C or B2B with a direct product or service. Often the most profitable position is as the switchboard.
- toomuchtodo 14y ago
  I think people on HN sometimes underestimate the importance of the middleman in economic life. You don't have to be B2C or B2B with a direct product or service. Often the most profitable position is as the switchboard. www.airbnb.com www.taskrabbit.com www.twilio.com I think we understand very well that running the marketplace is where its at. Remember, we're trying to be the middleman, just much more efficient than the incumbents.
  - jser 14y ago
    Can you elaborate on how market inefficiency is the issue? It seems others have tried similar schemes (Virgin America ran a private jet website with the same intentions), or attempted to open the market through smaller "taxi" planes (Embraer Phenom) or wholly regional airlines (Independence Air), but the cost of fuel and labor prevented increased adoption. The private jet market is scheduled at the last minute and filling unused seats (or return segments) seems to be quite challenging, even if offered as one way last minute deals to consumers. Is the goal to have a Southwest like "Ding" fare alert for subscribers?
    - toomuchtodo 14y ago
      Unused capacity is a market inefficiency. If you've got a jet deadheading somewhere empty, or have extra seats when someone hasn't bought out the whole cabin, that's an opportunity to offset your costs or even profit depending on the situation. If your app knows where people want to go to, knows their location, knows their spend willingness, etc, you can capture that additional revenue you might've never known about.
      - jacques_chester 14y ago
        Yep. Selling unused capacity, even at low prices, represents pure profit when your variable costs have already been met.
jcampbell1 14y ago
NetJets already exists, but it is different. It is more like owning without the headache and they also offer fractional ownership. It is damn near impossible to beat NetJets on pricing because they can finance the aircraft via Berkshire Hathaway's AAA. This seems like a different market. I am not quite sure I understand it. It looks like it is flying private rather than first class on standard routes. The advantage to charters is that you don't have to go through security, and you can fly from nowhere to nowhere direct. I don't understand this business model. It seems like they are flying standard routes. New York to LA on a private jet is worse than commercial because you are stuck in a 6 foot diameter pipe for 4.5 hours, rather than a first class seat on a normal airplane.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  I was thinking the same thing, there are fractional ownership deals [1], charter airline brokers [2], and of course air taxis [3] (which are not often jets but what ever). I realized this evening when slogging southbound on Highway 101 in the Bay Area what I really want is something that attaches to my car roof with a big NASA approved docking connector on it (aerodynamic though) which when I call up the app schedules a Sikorsky Sky Crane to fly by pick me up out of traffic and take me to my destination. [1] http://www.netjets.com http://www.netjets.com [2] http://www.rsvpair.com/ http://www.rsvpair.com/ [3] http://www.garyair.us/ http://www.garyair.us/
  - blaines 14y ago
    I want to upvote this ten times just because of the Sikorsky Sky Crane comment, but I also am voting because it's just a good comment.
  - Hontano 14y ago
    I don't know if that would be more awesome or terrifying, especially once you've removed the pilot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaman_K-MAX#Unmanned_remote_control_version http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaman_K-MAX#Unmanned_remote_con...
- dkokelley 14y ago
wpietri 14y ago
Uber for private jets? No idea how they're going to land the plane out front of my house, but I'll definitely download the app and give it a try.
- toomuchtodo 14y ago
  Invite only baby. Trying to figure out how to get an invite code.
- mayneack 14y ago
  They'll get a private fleet of black Ospreys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey
  - wmf 14y ago
    "Noise ordinances? Can't you see I'm disrupting here?"
gadders 14y ago
Slightly offtopic: What I found out the other day is that Jesse Jaymes [1] who sang the song "College Girls are Easy" founded Marquis Jets, a similar-ish service. He's also married to the billionaire founder of Spanx. Extraordinary career trajectory. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Itzler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Itzler
sgold1 14y ago
i thought the point of a private jet, was so that you did not have to share with anyone else
- johncarpinelli 14y ago
  I think the point is to ride in a limousine across the tarmac and then step directly onto your jet without any hassles. Direct point-to-point travel to any airport is convenient too. The Citation X can fly coast-to-coast in under four hours.
  - sokoloff 14y ago
    Correct, of course. The key unstated requirement is that it's exactly on your schedule and catered to your tastes. The issue with this idea, at least as I understand it, is that they're generating higher utilization by sharing and perhaps selling deadhead legs. Any of those things (and anything I can think of that drives utilization meaningfully higher) gives up a lot of the flexibility and precision adaptation to the guy-in-back's ever-changing schedule. I fly my family in our (piston) airplane for most of our travel east of the Mississippi. Even at piston costs and speeds (both way lower than jets), I can usually beat them door-to-door out to 800 miles and I smoke them door to door for everything under 500 miles. Plus, I'm never waiting for my inbound aircraft, getting the free opt-out feelup by TSA, sweating connections or waiting for my bags. UberJet can deliver on some of those things, but the closer they drive it to part 121 (air carrier) to make it cheaper, the more they'll give up on the advantage side. I suspect they'll give up a lot of advantages and still not have a cost-competitive product. No one will complain about riding x-country in a Citation X, but they may balk at the $7500/hr operating cost.
mhartl 14y ago
I can already see it: funds permitting, we'll take Uber cars to the airport and then catch a BlackJet to our final destination.

63 points by kloncks 14y ago

This strikes me as a good idea, on paper. If I may play the traditional role of first-comment-is-negative however: 1. NetJets are a fractional ownership company who are probably going to remain more popular at this level of society because they're a full service outfit; 2. Charter companies already run their planes efficiently, so they may be in a position to match on price on some routes; 3. I suspect that for a lot of really really rich people, owning a plane is not a purely financial decision. It's a status signal. All that being said ... it might just work by creating a new market segment -- people who can afford business or first class but can't quite justify private charters. I think people on HN sometimes underestimate the importance of the middleman in economic life. You don't have to be B2C or B2B with a direct product or service. Often the most profitable position is as the switchboard.

toomuchtodo 14y ago
I think people on HN sometimes underestimate the importance of the middleman in economic life. You don't have to be B2C or B2B with a direct product or service. Often the most profitable position is as the switchboard. www.airbnb.com www.taskrabbit.com www.twilio.com I think we understand very well that running the marketplace is where its at. Remember, we're trying to be the middleman, just much more efficient than the incumbents.
- jser 14y ago
  Can you elaborate on how market inefficiency is the issue? It seems others have tried similar schemes (Virgin America ran a private jet website with the same intentions), or attempted to open the market through smaller "taxi" planes (Embraer Phenom) or wholly regional airlines (Independence Air), but the cost of fuel and labor prevented increased adoption. The private jet market is scheduled at the last minute and filling unused seats (or return segments) seems to be quite challenging, even if offered as one way last minute deals to consumers. Is the goal to have a Southwest like "Ding" fare alert for subscribers?
  - toomuchtodo 14y ago
    Unused capacity is a market inefficiency. If you've got a jet deadheading somewhere empty, or have extra seats when someone hasn't bought out the whole cabin, that's an opportunity to offset your costs or even profit depending on the situation. If your app knows where people want to go to, knows their location, knows their spend willingness, etc, you can capture that additional revenue you might've never known about.
    - jacques_chester 14y ago
      Yep. Selling unused capacity, even at low prices, represents pure profit when your variable costs have already been met.

jcampbell1 14y ago

NetJets already exists, but it is different. It is more like owning without the headache and they also offer fractional ownership. It is damn near impossible to beat NetJets on pricing because they can finance the aircraft via Berkshire Hathaway's AAA. This seems like a different market. I am not quite sure I understand it. It looks like it is flying private rather than first class on standard routes. The advantage to charters is that you don't have to go through security, and you can fly from nowhere to nowhere direct. I don't understand this business model. It seems like they are flying standard routes. New York to LA on a private jet is worse than commercial because you are stuck in a 6 foot diameter pipe for 4.5 hours, rather than a first class seat on a normal airplane.

ChuckMcM 14y ago
I was thinking the same thing, there are fractional ownership deals [1], charter airline brokers [2], and of course air taxis [3] (which are not often jets but what ever). I realized this evening when slogging southbound on Highway 101 in the Bay Area what I really want is something that attaches to my car roof with a big NASA approved docking connector on it (aerodynamic though) which when I call up the app schedules a Sikorsky Sky Crane to fly by pick me up out of traffic and take me to my destination. [1] http://www.netjets.com http://www.netjets.com [2] http://www.rsvpair.com/ http://www.rsvpair.com/ [3] http://www.garyair.us/ http://www.garyair.us/
- blaines 14y ago
  I want to upvote this ten times just because of the Sikorsky Sky Crane comment, but I also am voting because it's just a good comment.
- Hontano 14y ago
  I don't know if that would be more awesome or terrifying, especially once you've removed the pilot: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaman_K-MAX#Unmanned_remote_control_version http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaman_K-MAX#Unmanned_remote_con...
dkokelley 14y ago

wpietri 14y ago

Uber for private jets? No idea how they're going to land the plane out front of my house, but I'll definitely download the app and give it a try.

toomuchtodo 14y ago
Invite only baby. Trying to figure out how to get an invite code.
mayneack 14y ago
They'll get a private fleet of black Ospreys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_V-22_Osprey
- wmf 14y ago
  "Noise ordinances? Can't you see I'm disrupting here?"

gadders 14y ago

Slightly offtopic: What I found out the other day is that Jesse Jaymes [1] who sang the song "College Girls are Easy" founded Marquis Jets, a similar-ish service. He's also married to the billionaire founder of Spanx. Extraordinary career trajectory. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Itzler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Itzler

sgold1 14y ago

i thought the point of a private jet, was so that you did not have to share with anyone else

johncarpinelli 14y ago
I think the point is to ride in a limousine across the tarmac and then step directly onto your jet without any hassles. Direct point-to-point travel to any airport is convenient too. The Citation X can fly coast-to-coast in under four hours.
- sokoloff 14y ago
  Correct, of course. The key unstated requirement is that it's exactly on your schedule and catered to your tastes. The issue with this idea, at least as I understand it, is that they're generating higher utilization by sharing and perhaps selling deadhead legs. Any of those things (and anything I can think of that drives utilization meaningfully higher) gives up a lot of the flexibility and precision adaptation to the guy-in-back's ever-changing schedule. I fly my family in our (piston) airplane for most of our travel east of the Mississippi. Even at piston costs and speeds (both way lower than jets), I can usually beat them door-to-door out to 800 miles and I smoke them door to door for everything under 500 miles. Plus, I'm never waiting for my inbound aircraft, getting the free opt-out feelup by TSA, sweating connections or waiting for my bags. UberJet can deliver on some of those things, but the closer they drive it to part 121 (air carrier) to make it cheaper, the more they'll give up on the advantage side. I suspect they'll give up a lot of advantages and still not have a cost-competitive product. No one will complain about riding x-country in a Citation X, but they may balk at the $7500/hr operating cost.

mhartl 14y ago

I can already see it: funds permitting, we'll take Uber cars to the airport and then catch a BlackJet to our final destination.