8 ms·

This should be illegal that the government forces people into apps controlled by private, commercial entities. I call such a government corrupt. Here in centra

This should be illegal that the government forces people into apps controlled by private, commercial entities. I call such a government corrupt. Here in central Europe I can still access the bank website fine without smartphone. I need a physical device to yield a TAN though, but I can access and do online transactions fine. So I think something is wrong with the spanish government. People need to protest.

phantom784 8mo ago
Especially in Europe! They shouldn't be forcing you to run an OS from an American company.
- wolvoleo 8mo ago
  Even the EU initiative Wero requires Google or Apple. You can't even use it on a desktop pc and you're not even allowed to have developer options on. Ridiculous. I've never seen any app that is so strict.
  - rahkiin 8mo ago
    Weird, because Wero is an internationalization of the dutch iDeal and that worked fine without any apps. You clicked ‘continue to bank’, select your bank, and then login on the bank web portal.
  - kyusan0 8mo ago
    That's not exactly right, Wero the app is not Wero the payment system. Banks and payment processors are expected to integrate Wero the same way they do with iDeal and similar systems. So ultimately if your bank's app doesn't require attestation you will be able to use Wero through it.
- wcallahan 8mo ago
  American here who values individual liberties greatly. I know things are politically tense at the moment, but I’m not sure I understand this popular contemporary sentiment. I’ve always believed governments and companies should be regarded with fairly low trust, and the behavior of big tech companies and some recent government actions are great examples why. But what disappoints me a bit about this moment is (the perhaps inevitable?) response to nationalism with more nationalism. Just as I didn’t seek to punish the EU over authoritarianism in Hungary and Poland, I feel the current moment has many responding to the symptoms instead of the sources of the problems. This is not a defense of policies I believe concern you, it’s a question of priorities. I think the author of the article got it right. Because in addition to privacy, I believe one should be able to navigate the internet freely without a mandate to do business with monopolistic dominant companies, which includes rights like ownership of your data.
  - bogeholm 8mo ago
    > But what disappoints me a bit about this moment is (the perhaps inevitable?) response to nationalism with more nationalism. Unfortunately it is now a question of sovereignty and basic risk management, not nationalism ([0] and multiple other sources). [0]: https://mspoweruser.com/europe-calls-out-us-tech-after-microsoft-bars-icc-prosecutors-email/ https://mspoweruser.com/europe-calls-out-us-tech-after-micro...
  - raron 8mo ago
    I don't think this is about the current situation in the US. Big US tech companies are infamous for not following the EU's data protection rules, and they wouldn't even able to, because some US regulations (I think PRISM, FISA and others) are incompatible with the requirements of EU GDPR. This dates back at lest to Snowden leaks and the invalidation of EU-US data protection agreements by Schrems judgments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems#Complaints_with_the_Irish_Data_Protection_Commissioner_(2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems#Complaints_with_th...
microtonal 8mo ago
My bank still supports TAN codes with a device too. Unfortunately, once it breaks or the battery goes dead you cannot get a new one and have to use their app. Fortunately, their app works on GrapheneOS without issues.
dotancohen 8mo ago
> This should be illegal that the government forces people into apps controlled by private, commercial entities. I call such a government corrupt. Or how about schools requiring parents to use WhatsApp to receive updates and information? Luckily my ex forwards to me the important stuff, but not everyone is as lucky to have an ex like mine ))
- raddan 8mo ago
  Forget exes—-how about current partners! I predict with high confidence that my wife’s response to such a request would be “grow up and install WhatsApp already.”
  - dotancohen 8mo ago
    To which one might reply "I can not unread those terms of service to which I do not consent". Oh, wait, I think I've just figured out why I'm divorced.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 8mo ago
    Mine would be the exact opposite. She'd walk into the school district office and read them the riot act for being so stupid.
- ryandrake 8mo ago
  If the government (or school) is going to require us to have a smartphone in order to access critical government information, then we should demand that the government provide us with a compatible smartphone.
  - NewsaHackO 8mo ago
    Would you use that phone?
    - simoncion 8mo ago
      If your employer required the use of a smartphone for essential components of your job and provided you with a smartphone and cellular data plan, would you not use that smartphone for those components of your job? I'd not use employer- or government-furnished equipment for tasks that the equipment wasn't provided to complete, but I'd definitely use it for those tasks.
Mindwipe 8mo ago
The DSA European digital wallet spec currently requires Google or Apple attestation, so not for much longer. And that is mandated by the EU.
- notpushkin 8mo ago
  Sigh.
  - k12sosse 8mo ago
    Reputational awareness is what keeps people safe!
iamgrootali 8mo ago
[flagged]
antonyh 8mo ago
I switched bank in the UK due to enforced app use, from Starling to Nationwide. They use a card reader to issue codes, so I can still use the web. I see this as a much of a must-have as physical bank branches with real cashier services.
- tonyedgecombe 8mo ago
  But Starling has always been app only?
  - aembleton 8mo ago
    You can bank via the website here: https://app.starlingbank.com/login https://app.starlingbank.com/login Might be more limited than the app though.
    - Andromxda 8mo ago
      Starling Bank has been officially supporting GrapheneOS using Android's hardware attestation API (not the Play Integrity API) since 2024.
  - antonyh 8mo ago
    It's not possible to login to the web-based banking without the app. It's a hard requirement to access the account.
- monksy 8mo ago
  Might be able to file a complaint with the financial services that they're charging you hidden fees to access and manage your money.. (the requirement of having a working mobile, phone, service, etc)
- Andromxda 8mo ago
  Starling Bank has been officially supporting GrapheneOS using Android's hardware attestation API (not the Play Integrity API) since 2024.
nazcan 8mo ago
As long as it includes websites made by commercial entities. Only standardized API endpoints!
tranq_cassowary 8mo ago
Where is the government forcing you here? Does Spain have regulation that obliges the use of apps for banking for certain functionality and disallows websites? Or what are you talking about?

phantom784 8mo ago

Especially in Europe! They shouldn't be forcing you to run an OS from an American company.

wolvoleo 8mo ago
Even the EU initiative Wero requires Google or Apple. You can't even use it on a desktop pc and you're not even allowed to have developer options on. Ridiculous. I've never seen any app that is so strict.
- rahkiin 8mo ago
  Weird, because Wero is an internationalization of the dutch iDeal and that worked fine without any apps. You clicked ‘continue to bank’, select your bank, and then login on the bank web portal.
- kyusan0 8mo ago
  That's not exactly right, Wero the app is not Wero the payment system. Banks and payment processors are expected to integrate Wero the same way they do with iDeal and similar systems. So ultimately if your bank's app doesn't require attestation you will be able to use Wero through it.
wcallahan 8mo ago
American here who values individual liberties greatly. I know things are politically tense at the moment, but I’m not sure I understand this popular contemporary sentiment. I’ve always believed governments and companies should be regarded with fairly low trust, and the behavior of big tech companies and some recent government actions are great examples why. But what disappoints me a bit about this moment is (the perhaps inevitable?) response to nationalism with more nationalism. Just as I didn’t seek to punish the EU over authoritarianism in Hungary and Poland, I feel the current moment has many responding to the symptoms instead of the sources of the problems. This is not a defense of policies I believe concern you, it’s a question of priorities. I think the author of the article got it right. Because in addition to privacy, I believe one should be able to navigate the internet freely without a mandate to do business with monopolistic dominant companies, which includes rights like ownership of your data.
- bogeholm 8mo ago
  > But what disappoints me a bit about this moment is (the perhaps inevitable?) response to nationalism with more nationalism. Unfortunately it is now a question of sovereignty and basic risk management, not nationalism ([0] and multiple other sources). [0]: https://mspoweruser.com/europe-calls-out-us-tech-after-microsoft-bars-icc-prosecutors-email/ https://mspoweruser.com/europe-calls-out-us-tech-after-micro...
- raron 8mo ago
  I don't think this is about the current situation in the US. Big US tech companies are infamous for not following the EU's data protection rules, and they wouldn't even able to, because some US regulations (I think PRISM, FISA and others) are incompatible with the requirements of EU GDPR. This dates back at lest to Snowden leaks and the invalidation of EU-US data protection agreements by Schrems judgments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems#Complaints_with_the_Irish_Data_Protection_Commissioner_(2011) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Schrems#Complaints_with_th...

microtonal 8mo ago

My bank still supports TAN codes with a device too. Unfortunately, once it breaks or the battery goes dead you cannot get a new one and have to use their app. Fortunately, their app works on GrapheneOS without issues.

dotancohen 8mo ago

> This should be illegal that the government forces people into apps controlled by private, commercial entities. I call such a government corrupt. Or how about schools requiring parents to use WhatsApp to receive updates and information? Luckily my ex forwards to me the important stuff, but not everyone is as lucky to have an ex like mine ))

raddan 8mo ago
Forget exes—-how about current partners! I predict with high confidence that my wife’s response to such a request would be “grow up and install WhatsApp already.”
- dotancohen 8mo ago
  To which one might reply "I can not unread those terms of service to which I do not consent". Oh, wait, I think I've just figured out why I'm divorced.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 8mo ago
  Mine would be the exact opposite. She'd walk into the school district office and read them the riot act for being so stupid.
ryandrake 8mo ago
If the government (or school) is going to require us to have a smartphone in order to access critical government information, then we should demand that the government provide us with a compatible smartphone.
- NewsaHackO 8mo ago
  Would you use that phone?
  - simoncion 8mo ago
    If your employer required the use of a smartphone for essential components of your job and provided you with a smartphone and cellular data plan, would you not use that smartphone for those components of your job? I'd not use employer- or government-furnished equipment for tasks that the equipment wasn't provided to complete, but I'd definitely use it for those tasks.

Mindwipe 8mo ago

The DSA European digital wallet spec currently requires Google or Apple attestation, so not for much longer. And that is mandated by the EU.

notpushkin 8mo ago
Sigh.
- k12sosse 8mo ago
  Reputational awareness is what keeps people safe!

iamgrootali 8mo ago

[flagged]

antonyh 8mo ago

I switched bank in the UK due to enforced app use, from Starling to Nationwide. They use a card reader to issue codes, so I can still use the web. I see this as a much of a must-have as physical bank branches with real cashier services.

tonyedgecombe 8mo ago
But Starling has always been app only?
- aembleton 8mo ago
  You can bank via the website here: https://app.starlingbank.com/login https://app.starlingbank.com/login Might be more limited than the app though.
  - Andromxda 8mo ago
    Starling Bank has been officially supporting GrapheneOS using Android's hardware attestation API (not the Play Integrity API) since 2024.
- antonyh 8mo ago
  It's not possible to login to the web-based banking without the app. It's a hard requirement to access the account.
monksy 8mo ago
Might be able to file a complaint with the financial services that they're charging you hidden fees to access and manage your money.. (the requirement of having a working mobile, phone, service, etc)
Andromxda 8mo ago
Starling Bank has been officially supporting GrapheneOS using Android's hardware attestation API (not the Play Integrity API) since 2024.

nazcan 8mo ago

As long as it includes websites made by commercial entities. Only standardized API endpoints!

tranq_cassowary 8mo ago

Where is the government forcing you here? Does Spain have regulation that obliges the use of apps for banking for certain functionality and disallows websites? Or what are you talking about?