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I contacted my bank, insisting that GrapheneOS is one of the most secure OS on the market and therefore should be supported if they actually care about users' s

I contacted my bank, insisting that GrapheneOS is one of the most secure OS on the market and therefore should be supported if they actually care about users' security (it's actually far more secure than all the old, far less secure but Google-approved devices out there). They acknowledged an fixed their app, one of the most popular in France. Still missing Android Pay but that's due to Android Pay being closed. I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google (how can we be okay with this?!)

jackhalford 8mo ago
I’m interested which french bank is this?
palata 8mo ago
> I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google There are countries where it's possible to pay everywhere with the banking app scanning a QR code. No need for NFC :-).
- stephenr 8mo ago
  I use qr based payments regularly where I live, and in my home country I use nfc payments (watch/phone/card) essentially always, when we visit. NFC is by far more convenient and reliable.
  - palata 8mo ago
    I can't say about "convenient" because I don't use it, but I have been using QR codes for years and I haven't had a single issue. I don't know anyone who has. QR codes are reliable.
    - stephenr 8mo ago
      It's regularly unreliable here, because it's reliant on a bank app which in turn is reliant on an internet connection, and banks here are kind of shit. It's pretty common here that people will be told they need to turn off an otherwise working Wifi connection when facing problems because bank apps will often just not work properly on wifi. But as I said, even without that, the convenience level is ridiculously different. It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes, before we even talk about the convenience of watch/phone payments using NFC.
      - palata 8mo ago
        > It's regularly unreliable here, because it's reliant on a bank app which in turn is reliant on an internet connection Got it, that's a fair point! > But as I said, even without that, the convenience level is ridiculously different. It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes This part sounds like those people who use a different unit system than I do and explain to me how my unit system is objectively more inconvenient than theirs. To which I answer: "I think I know better than you what is more convenient for me, given that I use it everyday" :-). I use QR codes instead of opening my wallet, which kind of hints towards the former being more convenient than the latter for me. And for the millions of people who also do that.
        stephenr 8mo ago
        Did you miss the part where I said I use both? I'm not saying "yours" is less convenient. I'm saying the one you and I both use regularly is less convenient than anything NFC based, which I also use semi-regularly.
        palata 8mo ago
        I'm confused. You say: > It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes So I assume that even though QR codes are available where you live, you use your debit card with an NFC chip because it is quicker than using QR codes... Anyway, the important part is that NFC doesn't require an internet connection, and I had missed that. Now I wonder why a QR code couldn't work without an internet connection just the same. I'll have to look into that!
    - landgenoot 8mo ago
      You need an active internet connection to pay via QR. NFC (EMV) works offline.
      - palata 8mo ago
        Got it, that's a good point! It's so much not an issue where I live that I hadn't realised :-). But it is an issue nonetheless.
- yason 8mo ago
  The point of NFC-on-a-phone is that you don't need the damn banking apps and internet and retailer support for all that to validate a simple transaction. My credit card has NFC, no internet and no app, and it's universal.
  - palata 8mo ago
    > you don't need the damn banking apps You need the Google/Apple app though, don't you? Or can you write your own personal app that will handle that?
    - Andromxda 8mo ago
      There are several banks, especially over here in Europe, that have their own implementations of contactless payments, if that's what you mean. Here's a German article outlining this and mentioning a few examples: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/nfc-datenschutzfreundlich-bezahlen-mit-dem-android-phone/ https://www.kuketz-blog.de/nfc-datenschutzfreundlich-bezahle...
estherney 8mo ago
German bank Comdirect / Commerzbank did this as well, whitelisting GrapheneOS signing keys for their 2FA app. https://github.com/PrivSec-dev/banking-apps-compat-report/issues/349#issuecomment-2784133395 https://github.com/PrivSec-dev/banking-apps-compat-report/is...
ninininino 8mo ago
Play Integrity and APIs like it aren't about security, they are about anti-fraud/anti-scam.

jackhalford 8mo ago

I’m interested which french bank is this?

palata 8mo ago

> I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google There are countries where it's possible to pay everywhere with the banking app scanning a QR code. No need for NFC :-).

stephenr 8mo ago
I use qr based payments regularly where I live, and in my home country I use nfc payments (watch/phone/card) essentially always, when we visit. NFC is by far more convenient and reliable.
- palata 8mo ago
  I can't say about "convenient" because I don't use it, but I have been using QR codes for years and I haven't had a single issue. I don't know anyone who has. QR codes are reliable.
  - stephenr 8mo ago
    It's regularly unreliable here, because it's reliant on a bank app which in turn is reliant on an internet connection, and banks here are kind of shit. It's pretty common here that people will be told they need to turn off an otherwise working Wifi connection when facing problems because bank apps will often just not work properly on wifi. But as I said, even without that, the convenience level is ridiculously different. It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes, before we even talk about the convenience of watch/phone payments using NFC.
    - palata 8mo ago
      > It's regularly unreliable here, because it's reliant on a bank app which in turn is reliant on an internet connection Got it, that's a fair point! > But as I said, even without that, the convenience level is ridiculously different. It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes This part sounds like those people who use a different unit system than I do and explain to me how my unit system is objectively more inconvenient than theirs. To which I answer: "I think I know better than you what is more convenient for me, given that I use it everyday" :-). I use QR codes instead of opening my wallet, which kind of hints towards the former being more convenient than the latter for me. And for the millions of people who also do that.
      - stephenr 8mo ago
        Did you miss the part where I said I use both? I'm not saying "yours" is less convenient. I'm saying the one you and I both use regularly is less convenient than anything NFC based, which I also use semi-regularly.
        palata 8mo ago
        I'm confused. You say: > It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes So I assume that even though QR codes are available where you live, you use your debit card with an NFC chip because it is quicker than using QR codes... Anyway, the important part is that NFC doesn't require an internet connection, and I had missed that. Now I wonder why a QR code couldn't work without an internet connection just the same. I'll have to look into that!
  - landgenoot 8mo ago
    You need an active internet connection to pay via QR. NFC (EMV) works offline.
    - palata 8mo ago
      Got it, that's a good point! It's so much not an issue where I live that I hadn't realised :-). But it is an issue nonetheless.
yason 8mo ago
The point of NFC-on-a-phone is that you don't need the damn banking apps and internet and retailer support for all that to validate a simple transaction. My credit card has NFC, no internet and no app, and it's universal.
- palata 8mo ago
  > you don't need the damn banking apps You need the Google/Apple app though, don't you? Or can you write your own personal app that will handle that?
  - Andromxda 8mo ago
    There are several banks, especially over here in Europe, that have their own implementations of contactless payments, if that's what you mean. Here's a German article outlining this and mentioning a few examples: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/nfc-datenschutzfreundlich-bezahlen-mit-dem-android-phone/ https://www.kuketz-blog.de/nfc-datenschutzfreundlich-bezahle...

estherney 8mo ago

German bank Comdirect / Commerzbank did this as well, whitelisting GrapheneOS signing keys for their 2FA app. https://github.com/PrivSec-dev/banking-apps-compat-report/issues/349#issuecomment-2784133395 https://github.com/PrivSec-dev/banking-apps-compat-report/is...

ninininino 8mo ago

Play Integrity and APIs like it aren't about security, they are about anti-fraud/anti-scam.