4 ms·

One of the only big downsides I've noticed with GrapheneOS is that several banking apps don't work with it at all thanks to being tied to Google's verification

One of the only big downsides I've noticed with GrapheneOS is that several banking apps don't work with it at all thanks to being tied to Google's verification ecosystem. Luckily I have hardware 2FA keys from my bank so I can authenticate using that. It also slightly decreases the suck-factor from whenever the phone decides to fly off down a drain. This may not be the case for you, so do your research on what you need for daily living.

stinos 8mo ago
Author is installing Google Play Services it seems, wouldn't that work around this? In any case, for me this also sort of defeats the purpose: I'd rather break free from Google and Apple, not just (stock) Android and iOS.
- UnreachableCode 8mo ago
  No, because most banking apps call upon the Google Play Integrity API, which GrapheneOS doesn't (or can't?) use. There's a decent list kicking around of which ones work (Monzo, for instance). https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
  - tranq_cassowary 8mo ago
    It's more common in banking apps than in other apps to implement Play Integrity but it's cetainly not "most banks" that do it. It's still only a small subset. Sucks of course if it's your bank.
    - UnreachableCode 8mo ago
      Maybe not in your region, but here in the UK I think the majority of high street banks do not function on GrapheneOS.
- palata 8mo ago
  > this also sort of defeats the purpose Not really. On GrapheneOS, the Play Services/Play Store run as sandboxed apps, i.e. they are not system apps like on Android. They just run like a normal, unprivileged app. That's a lot better than on Android. > I'd rather break free from Google and Apple, not just (stock) Android and iOS If you want to break free, you don't have to install the Play Services / Play Store on GrapheneOS, just like you don't have to install microG on LineageOS. There is a misconception that microG is better than sandboxed Play, but I disagree. With microG, your apps still connect to the Google servers, so you're not "breaking free".
  - microtonal 8mo ago
    With microG, your apps still connect to the Google servers, so you're not "breaking free". Moreover, some OSes (e.g. /e/OS) give certain Google apps higher privileges than other apps even with microG, install Android Auto and it's still game over. GrapheneOS does not have this issue because as you say, Google apps/services get sandboxed. Obligatory link: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
adezxc 8mo ago
Yup, also Google Pay doesn't work, though there are other providers which work fine (Curve Pay I think works in all of EU), but it just made me carry my wallet everywhere and I understood I don't mind that at all.
- microtonal 8mo ago
  I still have my Apple Watch configured, so I'm just doing the NFC payments with that :).
- kaopor 8mo ago
  Since all of comments are about NFC payments, this should be higher. Can confirm Curve Pay works (pixel 9a) at least with one Greek bank and Revilut. Not affiliated in any way with them and don't know this service is actually works just Yeah I'm amazed too.
zhouzhao 8mo ago
Of course that is highly depdendet on the bank used, but so far none of my banking apps didn't work! If you are using a rather popular banking app, chances are high that it has been discussed in the GrapheneOS forum. Anyway, with google play services installed, mine have worked out of the box.
dgxyz 8mo ago
Does anyone know if HSBC's UK app works on it? I've seen inconsistent reports that it does and doesn't. Edit: ignore this - there's a list elsewhere in this thread!
mentalgear 8mo ago
"Banking Applications Compatibility with GrapheneOS" https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
rcMgD2BwE72F 8mo ago
I contacted my bank, insisting that GrapheneOS is one of the most secure OS on the market and therefore should be supported if they actually care about users' security (it's actually far more secure than all the old, far less secure but Google-approved devices out there). They acknowledged an fixed their app, one of the most popular in France. Still missing Android Pay but that's due to Android Pay being closed. I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google (how can we be okay with this?!)
- jackhalford 8mo ago
  I’m interested which french bank is this?
- palata 8mo ago
  > I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google There are countries where it's possible to pay everywhere with the banking app scanning a QR code. No need for NFC :-).
  - stephenr 8mo ago
    I use qr based payments regularly where I live, and in my home country I use nfc payments (watch/phone/card) essentially always, when we visit. NFC is by far more convenient and reliable.
    - palata 8mo ago
      I can't say about "convenient" because I don't use it, but I have been using QR codes for years and I haven't had a single issue. I don't know anyone who has. QR codes are reliable.
      - stephenr 8mo ago
        It's regularly unreliable here, because it's reliant on a bank app which in turn is reliant on an internet connection, and banks here are kind of shit. It's pretty common here that people will be told they need to turn off an otherwise working Wifi connection when facing problems because bank apps will often just not work properly on wifi. But as I said, even without that, the convenience level is ridiculously different. It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes, before we even talk about the convenience of watch/phone payments using NFC.
joebe89 8mo ago
What about the small matter of having to purchase a Google phone in the first place?
- palata 8mo ago
  I see it as a necessity, because the Google phone is the only one worth it if you care about security. The problem is not GrapheneOS, but rather that phone manufacturers other than Google don't care. Now if there were millions of GrapheneOS users, it would start becoming interesting for other phone manufacturers to care. My point being that I buy Pixel in order to give more weight to GrapheneOS, in the hope that other manufacturers will eventually realise that.
- backscratches 8mo ago
  Most anti-google move: buy a second hand pixel, they receive no revenue on the device which is (assumed) already highly subsidized by google so that they can profit off users' data, then you use their subsidized hardware without running their spyware OS. Google only loses money in this scenario, it is a great protest.
  - Aachen 8mo ago
    Have you seen those prices? I don't think the devices need subsidising at all. How else could competitors, who aren't selling off your data, offer it for cheaper?
    - backscratches 8mo ago
      competitors also sell off your data, via uninstallable google spyware in most cases!
      - Aachen 8mo ago
        That depends on (1) which one you pick and (2) whether you keep the stock OS Given that there exist vendors like Fairphone/Murena that sell lower-performant hardware at much lower price points, it seems to me that the expensive but decent hardware (like Google's flagship) might be priced appropriately as well Other competitors (that do track you, like Samsung) have similar price points for their high-end hardware and are again much cheaper for slower hardware. If selling data is so essential, they wouldn't allow removing the tracking. (Samsung may be a bad example because they removed it last summer, but root popularity has been diminishing since early android days anyway so I can't imagine it's a big factor for them)
tonylemesmer 8mo ago
yep - tried GrapheneOS for the first time today and my banking app detected that the phone was jailbroken.
- microtonal 8mo ago
  Did you relock the bootloader and disable OEM unlocking as part of the GrapheneOS onboarding?

stinos 8mo ago

Author is installing Google Play Services it seems, wouldn't that work around this? In any case, for me this also sort of defeats the purpose: I'd rather break free from Google and Apple, not just (stock) Android and iOS.

UnreachableCode 8mo ago
No, because most banking apps call upon the Google Play Integrity API, which GrapheneOS doesn't (or can't?) use. There's a decent list kicking around of which ones work (Monzo, for instance). https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...
- tranq_cassowary 8mo ago
  It's more common in banking apps than in other apps to implement Play Integrity but it's cetainly not "most banks" that do it. It's still only a small subset. Sucks of course if it's your bank.
  - UnreachableCode 8mo ago
    Maybe not in your region, but here in the UK I think the majority of high street banks do not function on GrapheneOS.
palata 8mo ago
> this also sort of defeats the purpose Not really. On GrapheneOS, the Play Services/Play Store run as sandboxed apps, i.e. they are not system apps like on Android. They just run like a normal, unprivileged app. That's a lot better than on Android. > I'd rather break free from Google and Apple, not just (stock) Android and iOS If you want to break free, you don't have to install the Play Services / Play Store on GrapheneOS, just like you don't have to install microG on LineageOS. There is a misconception that microG is better than sandboxed Play, but I disagree. With microG, your apps still connect to the Google servers, so you're not "breaking free".
- microtonal 8mo ago
  With microG, your apps still connect to the Google servers, so you're not "breaking free". Moreover, some OSes (e.g. /e/OS) give certain Google apps higher privileges than other apps even with microG, install Android Auto and it's still game over. GrapheneOS does not have this issue because as you say, Google apps/services get sandboxed. Obligatory link: https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

adezxc 8mo ago

Yup, also Google Pay doesn't work, though there are other providers which work fine (Curve Pay I think works in all of EU), but it just made me carry my wallet everywhere and I understood I don't mind that at all.

microtonal 8mo ago
I still have my Apple Watch configured, so I'm just doing the NFC payments with that :).
kaopor 8mo ago
Since all of comments are about NFC payments, this should be higher. Can confirm Curve Pay works (pixel 9a) at least with one Greek bank and Revilut. Not affiliated in any way with them and don't know this service is actually works just Yeah I'm amazed too.

zhouzhao 8mo ago

Of course that is highly depdendet on the bank used, but so far none of my banking apps didn't work! If you are using a rather popular banking app, chances are high that it has been discussed in the GrapheneOS forum. Anyway, with google play services installed, mine have worked out of the box.

dgxyz 8mo ago

Does anyone know if HSBC's UK app works on it? I've seen inconsistent reports that it does and doesn't. Edit: ignore this - there's a list elsewhere in this thread!

mentalgear 8mo ago

"Banking Applications Compatibility with GrapheneOS" https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/ https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

rcMgD2BwE72F 8mo ago

I contacted my bank, insisting that GrapheneOS is one of the most secure OS on the market and therefore should be supported if they actually care about users' security (it's actually far more secure than all the old, far less secure but Google-approved devices out there). They acknowledged an fixed their app, one of the most popular in France. Still missing Android Pay but that's due to Android Pay being closed. I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google (how can we be okay with this?!)

jackhalford 8mo ago
I’m interested which french bank is this?
palata 8mo ago
> I wish banks would do something and support NFC payment systems that don't require the device to be controlled by Google There are countries where it's possible to pay everywhere with the banking app scanning a QR code. No need for NFC :-).
- stephenr 8mo ago
  I use qr based payments regularly where I live, and in my home country I use nfc payments (watch/phone/card) essentially always, when we visit. NFC is by far more convenient and reliable.
  - palata 8mo ago
    I can't say about "convenient" because I don't use it, but I have been using QR codes for years and I haven't had a single issue. I don't know anyone who has. QR codes are reliable.
    - stephenr 8mo ago
      It's regularly unreliable here, because it's reliant on a bank app which in turn is reliant on an internet connection, and banks here are kind of shit. It's pretty common here that people will be told they need to turn off an otherwise working Wifi connection when facing problems because bank apps will often just not work properly on wifi. But as I said, even without that, the convenience level is ridiculously different. It's arguably quicker to open your wallet and use a debit card with an NFC chip than it is to use QR codes, before we even talk about the convenience of watch/phone payments using NFC.

joebe89 8mo ago

What about the small matter of having to purchase a Google phone in the first place?

palata 8mo ago
I see it as a necessity, because the Google phone is the only one worth it if you care about security. The problem is not GrapheneOS, but rather that phone manufacturers other than Google don't care. Now if there were millions of GrapheneOS users, it would start becoming interesting for other phone manufacturers to care. My point being that I buy Pixel in order to give more weight to GrapheneOS, in the hope that other manufacturers will eventually realise that.
backscratches 8mo ago
Most anti-google move: buy a second hand pixel, they receive no revenue on the device which is (assumed) already highly subsidized by google so that they can profit off users' data, then you use their subsidized hardware without running their spyware OS. Google only loses money in this scenario, it is a great protest.
- Aachen 8mo ago
  Have you seen those prices? I don't think the devices need subsidising at all. How else could competitors, who aren't selling off your data, offer it for cheaper?
  - backscratches 8mo ago
    competitors also sell off your data, via uninstallable google spyware in most cases!
    - Aachen 8mo ago
      That depends on (1) which one you pick and (2) whether you keep the stock OS Given that there exist vendors like Fairphone/Murena that sell lower-performant hardware at much lower price points, it seems to me that the expensive but decent hardware (like Google's flagship) might be priced appropriately as well Other competitors (that do track you, like Samsung) have similar price points for their high-end hardware and are again much cheaper for slower hardware. If selling data is so essential, they wouldn't allow removing the tracking. (Samsung may be a bad example because they removed it last summer, but root popularity has been diminishing since early android days anyway so I can't imagine it's a big factor for them)

tonylemesmer 8mo ago

yep - tried GrapheneOS for the first time today and my banking app detected that the phone was jailbroken.

microtonal 8mo ago
Did you relock the bootloader and disable OEM unlocking as part of the GrapheneOS onboarding?