7 ms·

Epstein Files: The Blackmail of Billionaire Leon Black and Epstein's Role in It

8 points by treetalker 8mo ago

verdverm 8mo ago
I'm not sure how I feel about the word "blackmail" here, as Leon did among the worst things a human can do. It would be nice to have words that distinguish this being applied to the innocent vs the guilty
- treetalker 8mo ago
  I'm not sure how one would blackmail the innocent. The threat of "exposure" would amount to a promise to slander.
  - verdverm 8mo ago
    If you don't do X for me, I will harm you physically. There are plenty of X's that will not be illegal, but harmful to reputation. Something you said or have to say, a fetish, an affair
    - treetalker 8mo ago
      Use of threats of physical and property harm to obtain something against the will of the victim is typically referred to as extortion. Blackmail typically refers to threats of exposing damaging information. > If you don't do X for me, I will harm you physically. There are plenty of X's that will not be illegal, but harmful to reputation. You're describing extortion. Blackmail is typically the use of harmful information to get something one wants against the other's will. Regarding the thing being obtained being harmful to the victim's reputation, it sounds like you have it a bit backwards. Moreover, blackmail statutes often specifically cover situations in which the person being blackmailed actually did commit the crime, the threatened disclosure/allegation of which is being used to obtain something against their will. Hence, blackmail is certainly not limited to innocent victims but instead includes blameworthy ones.
      - verdverm 8mo ago
        thanks for the lengthier description, "extortion" was a word I was looking for, though in retrospect "blackmail vs..." probably had me covered (lmgtf-myself) https://legalclarity.org/extortion-versus-blackmail-the-core-differences/ https://legalclarity.org/extortion-versus-blackmail-the-core... Reading a few of these, it seems like extortion is specific to obtaining property. Blackmail by contrast is "money or something of value" and is rather flexible in the method applied. There are a host of other words for other specific situations too.

8 points by treetalker 8mo ago

I'm not sure how I feel about the word "blackmail" here, as Leon did among the worst things a human can do. It would be nice to have words that distinguish this being applied to the innocent vs the guilty

treetalker 8mo ago
I'm not sure how one would blackmail the innocent. The threat of "exposure" would amount to a promise to slander.
- verdverm 8mo ago
  If you don't do X for me, I will harm you physically. There are plenty of X's that will not be illegal, but harmful to reputation. Something you said or have to say, a fetish, an affair
  - treetalker 8mo ago
    Use of threats of physical and property harm to obtain something against the will of the victim is typically referred to as extortion. Blackmail typically refers to threats of exposing damaging information. > If you don't do X for me, I will harm you physically. There are plenty of X's that will not be illegal, but harmful to reputation. You're describing extortion. Blackmail is typically the use of harmful information to get something one wants against the other's will. Regarding the thing being obtained being harmful to the victim's reputation, it sounds like you have it a bit backwards. Moreover, blackmail statutes often specifically cover situations in which the person being blackmailed actually did commit the crime, the threatened disclosure/allegation of which is being used to obtain something against their will. Hence, blackmail is certainly not limited to innocent victims but instead includes blameworthy ones.
    - verdverm 8mo ago
      thanks for the lengthier description, "extortion" was a word I was looking for, though in retrospect "blackmail vs..." probably had me covered (lmgtf-myself) https://legalclarity.org/extortion-versus-blackmail-the-core-differences/ https://legalclarity.org/extortion-versus-blackmail-the-core... Reading a few of these, it seems like extortion is specific to obtaining property. Blackmail by contrast is "money or something of value" and is rather flexible in the method applied. There are a host of other words for other specific situations too.