5 ms·

Almost 30 years old. Old good times without BGAs and modern barely visible components. While some basics are still applicable the modern problems are not covere

by lnsru 8mo ago

Almost 30 years old. Old good times without BGAs and modern barely visible components. While some basics are still applicable the modern problems are not covered at all.

varjag 8mo ago
It's great for working on vintage equipment, stuff that might need (and warrant) that kind of repair. Less so if you run a cell phone repair shop.
- nxobject 8mo ago
  There are a surprising number of Indian cell phone repair shops with YouTube channels that do feats of soldering, like repairing torn flat-flex cables… I bow down at their craft. If I ever get a sabbatical I’ll go to India and ask to be an apprentice.
Vexs 8mo ago
I don't think that modern boards are really repairable at all beyond component replacement- 4+ layer stackups being the big reason. If there's a way to do anything to those boards besides total replacement I'd be super interested to know. The techniques here are also way beyond basics I think- like, you look at most guides for repair and it's "idk just solder some bodge wires on there, here's what a good joint should look like"
- dsvf 8mo ago
  Andrew Zonenberg posted a Twitter thread a year or two ago where he fixed a missing PCB trace some layers down a PCB, with a stereo microscope, precision mill and very steady hands. Edit: here's the thread. It's a 6 layer PCB with a short on L5 that needs to be fixed from the L1 side. https://xcancel.com/azonenberg/status/1468825231225540611#m https://xcancel.com/azonenberg/status/1468825231225540611#m
  - dmbche 8mo ago
    10/10 read
  - Vexs 8mo ago
    Holy cow! I've been pushing around a TQFP48 tonight and thought I was pretty good.
    - Gracana 8mo ago
      If you enjoy that sort of thing, check out this guy's videos. Lots of trace repairs (including below the surface), pad replacements, etc. Quite impressive to see it done. https://www.youtube.com/@northwestrepair https://www.youtube.com/@northwestrepair
- idiotsecant 8mo ago
  Mostly when things fail it's not a trace, it's components
- dlcarrier 8mo ago
  For boards with a bunch of layers and BGA/LGA packages, that have internal manufacturing errors or damage (e.g from overflexing), repairs can be untenable. If the parts all have pads on their perimeter, then a jumper wire can replace internal traces. If the pads are underneath the part, and the trace is only internal, than a jumper may not be feasible, unless the damage happens from the surface in, in which case each layer can be jumpered at the damage.
  - mrheosuper 8mo ago
    >If the pads are underneath the part, and the trace is only internal, than a jumper may not be feasible. BGa pad repairing is very common, here is one example: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1077341457703029 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1077341457703029 (sorry can't find non-facebook link)
- mrheosuper 8mo ago
  nope, people still repair >8 layers boards like it's nothing. Some even do "chip repairing", literally remove the expoxy of the IC to fix bonding wire, or remove the security key/module on the chip.
alnwlsn 8mo ago
Provided you have good eyesight and steady hands, I've mostly found what happens as you get smaller is: - Heating becomes easier. There's no large sinks to take the heat away. It's also easier to overheat things. - You need finer tweezers, and don't drop them because if you do the tips will bend. - The solder's surface tension does more of the work. It feels a lot more like sticking together things with tiny droplets of glue. Having the correct amount of solder in the right place is critical. - Solder and flux become two separate things you have to care about individually - It is easier to burn yourself - learning how to brace your hand against something in a way that gives you very fine control. One reason soldering with an iron can be difficult is because your hand is so far away from the tip, like trying to write with a pen held by the end.
- godelski 8mo ago
  When I started my first job a coworker encouraged me to learn how to solder SMDs and do "microsoldering". Like most people I thought I was going to need high precision and a much steadier hand. Probably like most people that learned I was impressed at how quick I picked it up. I think the hardest thing was learning about part "tombstoning" but that's not that difficult to deal with. I'm not going to say it is easier than soldering through-hole components, but I think for most people the mental barrier is much higher than the actual barrier. I now highly recommend learning it to anyone doing electronics. It's well worth the (small) time investment and makes things a lot easier, opening lots of doors. Even for a hobbyist you immediately get benefits. Everything becomes more compact, 2 sided boards are much more usable, and, of course, it opens up a lot of repairability (and recycling. Are you really a hobbyist if you aren't desoldering and reclaiming parts?).
  - foresto 8mo ago
    > Are you really a hobbyist if you aren't desoldering and reclaiming parts? Fun memory from who-knows-how-many years ago: While installing a Playstation mod chip, I accidentally dislodged a nearby surface mount resistor, pulling off one of its metal contacts in the process. (Is that what happens when you overheat them?) I didn't think that was fixable, and since it was Sunday, the local electronics shop was closed. I ended up disassembling an old junk digital camera that hadn't yet been taken to the e-waste recycling drop, and finding inside it a resistor that seemed close enough to maybe work. The transplant was a success, and the Playstation ran great thereafter. Very satisfying.
nxobject 8mo ago
It started getting really annoying earlier with PGA, to be honest.

by lnsru 8mo ago

Almost 30 years old. Old good times without BGAs and modern barely visible components. While some basics are still applicable the modern problems are not covered at all.

varjag 8mo ago

It's great for working on vintage equipment, stuff that might need (and warrant) that kind of repair. Less so if you run a cell phone repair shop.

nxobject 8mo ago
There are a surprising number of Indian cell phone repair shops with YouTube channels that do feats of soldering, like repairing torn flat-flex cables… I bow down at their craft. If I ever get a sabbatical I’ll go to India and ask to be an apprentice.

Vexs 8mo ago

I don't think that modern boards are really repairable at all beyond component replacement- 4+ layer stackups being the big reason. If there's a way to do anything to those boards besides total replacement I'd be super interested to know. The techniques here are also way beyond basics I think- like, you look at most guides for repair and it's "idk just solder some bodge wires on there, here's what a good joint should look like"

dsvf 8mo ago
Andrew Zonenberg posted a Twitter thread a year or two ago where he fixed a missing PCB trace some layers down a PCB, with a stereo microscope, precision mill and very steady hands. Edit: here's the thread. It's a 6 layer PCB with a short on L5 that needs to be fixed from the L1 side. https://xcancel.com/azonenberg/status/1468825231225540611#m https://xcancel.com/azonenberg/status/1468825231225540611#m
- dmbche 8mo ago
  10/10 read
- Vexs 8mo ago
  Holy cow! I've been pushing around a TQFP48 tonight and thought I was pretty good.
  - Gracana 8mo ago
    If you enjoy that sort of thing, check out this guy's videos. Lots of trace repairs (including below the surface), pad replacements, etc. Quite impressive to see it done. https://www.youtube.com/@northwestrepair https://www.youtube.com/@northwestrepair
idiotsecant 8mo ago
Mostly when things fail it's not a trace, it's components
dlcarrier 8mo ago
For boards with a bunch of layers and BGA/LGA packages, that have internal manufacturing errors or damage (e.g from overflexing), repairs can be untenable. If the parts all have pads on their perimeter, then a jumper wire can replace internal traces. If the pads are underneath the part, and the trace is only internal, than a jumper may not be feasible, unless the damage happens from the surface in, in which case each layer can be jumpered at the damage.
- mrheosuper 8mo ago
  >If the pads are underneath the part, and the trace is only internal, than a jumper may not be feasible. BGa pad repairing is very common, here is one example: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1077341457703029 https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1077341457703029 (sorry can't find non-facebook link)
mrheosuper 8mo ago
nope, people still repair >8 layers boards like it's nothing. Some even do "chip repairing", literally remove the expoxy of the IC to fix bonding wire, or remove the security key/module on the chip.

alnwlsn 8mo ago

Provided you have good eyesight and steady hands, I've mostly found what happens as you get smaller is: - Heating becomes easier. There's no large sinks to take the heat away. It's also easier to overheat things. - You need finer tweezers, and don't drop them because if you do the tips will bend. - The solder's surface tension does more of the work. It feels a lot more like sticking together things with tiny droplets of glue. Having the correct amount of solder in the right place is critical. - Solder and flux become two separate things you have to care about individually - It is easier to burn yourself - learning how to brace your hand against something in a way that gives you very fine control. One reason soldering with an iron can be difficult is because your hand is so far away from the tip, like trying to write with a pen held by the end.

godelski 8mo ago
When I started my first job a coworker encouraged me to learn how to solder SMDs and do "microsoldering". Like most people I thought I was going to need high precision and a much steadier hand. Probably like most people that learned I was impressed at how quick I picked it up. I think the hardest thing was learning about part "tombstoning" but that's not that difficult to deal with. I'm not going to say it is easier than soldering through-hole components, but I think for most people the mental barrier is much higher than the actual barrier. I now highly recommend learning it to anyone doing electronics. It's well worth the (small) time investment and makes things a lot easier, opening lots of doors. Even for a hobbyist you immediately get benefits. Everything becomes more compact, 2 sided boards are much more usable, and, of course, it opens up a lot of repairability (and recycling. Are you really a hobbyist if you aren't desoldering and reclaiming parts?).
- foresto 8mo ago
  > Are you really a hobbyist if you aren't desoldering and reclaiming parts? Fun memory from who-knows-how-many years ago: While installing a Playstation mod chip, I accidentally dislodged a nearby surface mount resistor, pulling off one of its metal contacts in the process. (Is that what happens when you overheat them?) I didn't think that was fixable, and since it was Sunday, the local electronics shop was closed. I ended up disassembling an old junk digital camera that hadn't yet been taken to the e-waste recycling drop, and finding inside it a resistor that seemed close enough to maybe work. The transplant was a success, and the Playstation ran great thereafter. Very satisfying.

nxobject 8mo ago

It started getting really annoying earlier with PGA, to be honest.