5 ms·

Tens of thousands of years of political history and the only known paranoia-fueled scandal and suspicion of the elite being immoral pedophiles that I'm aware of

by ratrace 8mo ago

Tens of thousands of years of political history and the only known paranoia-fueled scandal and suspicion of the elite being immoral pedophiles that I'm aware of is currently happening in a democracy, because a guy who based his identity on knowing as many other powerful people as possible happened to know many powerful people (really??? no way!), and anti-capitalists are desperate for moral superiority so they're willing to psy-op themselves into thinking it's plausible that every person this guy ever emailed must have been a pedo too. Monarchy never had any of this nonsense. Bring back King George. We made the wrong choice.

mindslight 8mo ago
You're saying that monarchies never had perverted debauchery? It sounds like you need to read a little more broadly, rather than just contemporary writings that seek to burn down all of Chesterton's fences. And keep in mind that the monarchies of old were still constrained by religion, and by the lack of digital communications! What is being pushed today is better characterized as autocracy. The "monarchy" label is merely meant to evoke simpler-seeming times that are comfortably in the past. Also I think you meant "capitalists" rather than "anti-capitalists". That people who were successful under capitalism want to move to a different system does not imply that their favored system is also capitalist! If monarchy/autocracy is "capitalist" then North Korea is also "capitalist" and the word is meaningless. (also it seems like you're still in denial about the implications of Epstein's emails, regardless who was or was not partaking in the minors)
- ratrace 8mo ago
  > Also I think you meant "capitalists" rather than "anti-capitalists". No, I'm very much talking about talibanized socialists/communists/whatever they want to particularly call themselves. "Eat the rich" has become "The rich eat babies" because it doesn't matter what you try and get people to believe as long as they align themselves with your side and against the people you don't like. The Big Lie of our times, perhaps?
  - mindslight 8mo ago
    > I'm very much talking about talibanized socialists/communists/whatever they want to particularly call themselves. So you're just bashing a strawman that you've pigeonholed all opposition into? Okay then... We had a previous exchange that I ended up dropping. I was a bit sorry about that because I thought it would have been interesting to critique "universalism" on its own merits, rather than the term generally only being mentioned by its detractors. (For context here I was reading Moldbug while he was writing, and spent a bunch of time internalizing other reactionary writings. I actually credit Moldbug with my transition from a right-Libertarian to an unaligned libertarian that sees left vs right as mere modes of thinking, each with their own merits) But after seeing how quickly this conversation went downhill, I'm not sure that conversation would have been terribly productive either!
    - ratrace 8mo ago
      > So you're just bashing a strawman that you've pigeonholed all opposition into? If you think radicalized left-wingers are a strawman, you live in a separate universe from mine. Unfortunately, I live in the one where I have to wake up and see flyers around my town unironically claiming Trump ate kids. Can we swap?
      - mindslight 8mo ago
        Oh no, flyers? That changes things. Flyers are the worst. How do you even manage?
        ratrace 8mo ago
        I get by by resenting democracy and the political process. It ain't much but it's honest work.
        mindslight 8mo ago
        I understand. In fact, I've been there - I was working on ecash and cryptography before bitcoin and the bastardization of the term crypto. "Code is law" and all that. I'm sure some of it is due to getting older, but with open cult-of-personality autocratic authoritarianism (aka fascism) upon us I have become quite conservative. I had been taking a lot for granted about the freedoms we do have, and the position of the Western world. Don't let a desire to make things better goad you into wanting to destroy what we do have. But regardless, if you recoil from the groupthink of the leftists you should be similarly allergic to the groupthink of the rightists. They have taken up the mantles of so many of our longstanding societal problems, only to be led by outright con men and liars who are doing nothing to actually address those problems. And I don't just mean hate-but-hold-your-nose-for-some-greater-good, but rather hold them in the same exact regard as the leftists. Especially as that red tribe groupthink is now in power, and its results are not pretty.

by ratrace 8mo ago

mindslight 8mo ago

You're saying that monarchies never had perverted debauchery? It sounds like you need to read a little more broadly, rather than just contemporary writings that seek to burn down all of Chesterton's fences. And keep in mind that the monarchies of old were still constrained by religion, and by the lack of digital communications! What is being pushed today is better characterized as autocracy. The "monarchy" label is merely meant to evoke simpler-seeming times that are comfortably in the past. Also I think you meant "capitalists" rather than "anti-capitalists". That people who were successful under capitalism want to move to a different system does not imply that their favored system is also capitalist! If monarchy/autocracy is "capitalist" then North Korea is also "capitalist" and the word is meaningless. (also it seems like you're still in denial about the implications of Epstein's emails, regardless who was or was not partaking in the minors)

ratrace 8mo ago
> Also I think you meant "capitalists" rather than "anti-capitalists". No, I'm very much talking about talibanized socialists/communists/whatever they want to particularly call themselves. "Eat the rich" has become "The rich eat babies" because it doesn't matter what you try and get people to believe as long as they align themselves with your side and against the people you don't like. The Big Lie of our times, perhaps?
- mindslight 8mo ago
  > I'm very much talking about talibanized socialists/communists/whatever they want to particularly call themselves. So you're just bashing a strawman that you've pigeonholed all opposition into? Okay then... We had a previous exchange that I ended up dropping. I was a bit sorry about that because I thought it would have been interesting to critique "universalism" on its own merits, rather than the term generally only being mentioned by its detractors. (For context here I was reading Moldbug while he was writing, and spent a bunch of time internalizing other reactionary writings. I actually credit Moldbug with my transition from a right-Libertarian to an unaligned libertarian that sees left vs right as mere modes of thinking, each with their own merits) But after seeing how quickly this conversation went downhill, I'm not sure that conversation would have been terribly productive either!
  - ratrace 8mo ago
    > So you're just bashing a strawman that you've pigeonholed all opposition into? If you think radicalized left-wingers are a strawman, you live in a separate universe from mine. Unfortunately, I live in the one where I have to wake up and see flyers around my town unironically claiming Trump ate kids. Can we swap?
    - mindslight 8mo ago
      Oh no, flyers? That changes things. Flyers are the worst. How do you even manage?
      - ratrace 8mo ago
        I get by by resenting democracy and the political process. It ain't much but it's honest work.
        mindslight 8mo ago
        I understand. In fact, I've been there - I was working on ecash and cryptography before bitcoin and the bastardization of the term crypto. "Code is law" and all that. I'm sure some of it is due to getting older, but with open cult-of-personality autocratic authoritarianism (aka fascism) upon us I have become quite conservative. I had been taking a lot for granted about the freedoms we do have, and the position of the Western world. Don't let a desire to make things better goad you into wanting to destroy what we do have. But regardless, if you recoil from the groupthink of the leftists you should be similarly allergic to the groupthink of the rightists. They have taken up the mantles of so many of our longstanding societal problems, only to be led by outright con men and liars who are doing nothing to actually address those problems. And I don't just mean hate-but-hold-your-nose-for-some-greater-good, but rather hold them in the same exact regard as the leftists. Especially as that red tribe groupthink is now in power, and its results are not pretty.