3 ms·

This is an extremely thorny question. Not allowing some kind of blank slate makes rehabilitation extremely difficult, and it is almost certainly a very expensiv

by pjc50 9mo ago

This is an extremely thorny question. Not allowing some kind of blank slate makes rehabilitation extremely difficult, and it is almost certainly a very expensive net social negative to exclude someone from society permanently, all the way up to their death at (say) 70, for something they did at 18. There is already a legal requirement to ignore "spent" convictions in some circumstances. However, there's also jobs which legally require enhanced vetting checks.

junofan 9mo ago
Other people have rights like freedom of association. If you’re hell-bent on violating that, consider the second-order effects. What is the net social negative when non-criminals freely avoid working in industries in which criminals tend to be qualified to work?
- pjc50 9mo ago
  What do you mean by that?
  - linksnapzz 9mo ago
    Assuming you're asking in good faith, the parent could be referring to the 'market for lemons' in employment, where in lieu of being able to easily determine worker quality, employers start using second- or third-order- proxies for questions about, say, a candidate's likelihood of having a criminal record. Or, you might just be doing the meme: https://x.com/MillennialWoes/status/1893134391322308918?s=20 https://x.com/MillennialWoes/status/1893134391322308918?s=20
autoexec 9mo ago
> However, there's also jobs which legally require enhanced vetting checks. I think the solution there is to restrict access and limit application to only what's relevant to the job. If someone wants to be a daycare worker, the employer should be able to submit a background check to the justice system who could decide that the drug possession arrest 20 years ago shouldn't reasonably have an impact on the candidate's ability to perform the job, while a history of child sex offenses would. Employers would only get a pass/fail back.
- Muromec 9mo ago
  >If someone wants to be a daycare worker, the employer should be able to submit a background check to the justice system who could decide that the drug possession arrest 20 years ago shouldn't reasonably have an impact on the candidate's ability to perform the job, while a history of child sex offenses would. Employers would only get a pass/fail back. Welcome to the world of certificates of the good conduct and criminal record extracts: - https://www.justis.nl/en/products/certificate-of-conduct https://www.justis.nl/en/products/certificate-of-conduct - https://diia.gov.ua/services/vityag-pro-nesudimist https://diia.gov.ua/services/vityag-pro-nesudimist

by pjc50 9mo ago

junofan 9mo ago

Other people have rights like freedom of association. If you’re hell-bent on violating that, consider the second-order effects. What is the net social negative when non-criminals freely avoid working in industries in which criminals tend to be qualified to work?

pjc50 9mo ago
What do you mean by that?
- linksnapzz 9mo ago
  Assuming you're asking in good faith, the parent could be referring to the 'market for lemons' in employment, where in lieu of being able to easily determine worker quality, employers start using second- or third-order- proxies for questions about, say, a candidate's likelihood of having a criminal record. Or, you might just be doing the meme: https://x.com/MillennialWoes/status/1893134391322308918?s=20 https://x.com/MillennialWoes/status/1893134391322308918?s=20

autoexec 9mo ago

> However, there's also jobs which legally require enhanced vetting checks. I think the solution there is to restrict access and limit application to only what's relevant to the job. If someone wants to be a daycare worker, the employer should be able to submit a background check to the justice system who could decide that the drug possession arrest 20 years ago shouldn't reasonably have an impact on the candidate's ability to perform the job, while a history of child sex offenses would. Employers would only get a pass/fail back.

Muromec 9mo ago
>If someone wants to be a daycare worker, the employer should be able to submit a background check to the justice system who could decide that the drug possession arrest 20 years ago shouldn't reasonably have an impact on the candidate's ability to perform the job, while a history of child sex offenses would. Employers would only get a pass/fail back. Welcome to the world of certificates of the good conduct and criminal record extracts: - https://www.justis.nl/en/products/certificate-of-conduct https://www.justis.nl/en/products/certificate-of-conduct - https://diia.gov.ua/services/vityag-pro-nesudimist https://diia.gov.ua/services/vityag-pro-nesudimist