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Anyone banging on about coverups of crime due to immigrants should get immediately put in the bad faith argument bin, even if they were a Minister.

by pjc50 9mo ago

gulfofamerica 9mo ago
[dead]
carlosjobim 9mo ago
Can you explain your reasoning? Horrible crimes committed by foreign men against native children were covered up for political reasons in the UK. This is common knowledge.
- pjc50 9mo ago
  In the case of Rotherham, I believe that most of those committing the crimes were not foreign; most were British born British nationals. Ethnicity is not the same as immigration status.
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - gib444 9mo ago
    Congratulations, you've corrected us on the usage of the word immigrant. Now can we return to the topic? Whilst we're on Rotherham: "...by men predominantly of Pakistani heritage" [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-61868863 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-61868863 Their parents or grandparents were immigrants...
    - roryirvine 9mo ago
      The topic was crimes committed by "foreign men", and your link refers to crimes committed by non-immigrants. So it would seem that you're the one straying from the topic.
    - pjc50 9mo ago
      Their parents or grandparents didn't commit the crimes, though. We don't usually punish parents for the crime of their adult children.
  - carlosjobim 9mo ago
    The question is: Would the crimes have been covered up by authorities if the predators were ethnically English and the victims were children of foreigners?
    - notahacker 9mo ago
      Anyone who's actually paid any attention to the many documented failings of the child protection services in those cases knows the answer to that question is "yes".
      - dash2 9mo ago
        The problem with that argument is that, IIRC, there is direct evidence that one reasons that the abuse was covered up was that authorities were afraid of being accused of racism and/or of stirring up ethnic tensions. I don't think that, to accept this, you need believe that CPS is always perfect when this issue is absent.
        notahacker 9mo ago
        This is one of the factors that lead to crimes not being better investigated at the time, but then fear of tensions would cases where the alleged perpetrators were white and the victims/witnesses non-white as in the OP's question. (And more generally, teenage girls from working class backgrounds got far less sympathy and far more scepticism than they should have done from the police and CPS and even social workers when they talked about being sexually exploited regardless of race. Certainly no evidence was found they were much more keen to listen to non-white victims or prosecute white people...)
    - mrguyorama 9mo ago
      They covered up Jimmy Savile
reliabilityguy 9mo ago
Why? Immigrants cannot commit crimes? This kind of logic does more disservice than people realize. You can combat bigotry towards immigrants (issue #1), without covering up for criminal immigrants (issue #2) in fear of increase of issue #1 among the natives. It only brings up more resentment and bigotry.
- pjc50 9mo ago
  Crimes are committed by individuals. "Immigrants" is a group. Prosecution of sexual assault is often handled extremely badly. It needs to be done better, without fear or favor, including people who are friends with the police or in positions of power. As we're seeing the fallout of the Epstein files.
  - reliabilityguy 9mo ago
    > Crimes are committed by individuals. "Immigrants" is a group. Great. How does it change the substance of my comment? Perhaps, instead of arguing about whether “immigrants” is always a group as a collective, or a certain number of individuals acting together, you would focus on the high level implications of government’s action or inaction? What do Epstein files have to do with anything right now? Stop shifting the goal posts.
  - gib444 9mo ago
    Oh, it's "nothing to see here" bingo time?: - Policing language to distract from the topic. - Trying to claim things are just a series of isolated incidents with absolutely nothing in common - Claiming there are wider problems (that should be addressed in a manner that would take years and isn't even defined well enough to claim measure as being "better")
  - blell 9mo ago
    Immigration policy is one of the most important things people vote for in an election. We need transparent crime data so we can make an informed vote.
    - 9mo ago
9x39 9mo ago
Actually that’s what data and the preponderance of victims allege: an intersection of immigration and policing which interlocked to systematically deprioritize the investigation into abuse of working-class white girls by an over represented ethnic group. In the local data that the audit examined from three police forces, they identified clear evidence of “over-representation among suspects of Asian and Pakistani-heritage men”. It’s unfortunate to watch people and entire countries twist themselves in logic pretzels to avoid ever suggesting that immigration has no ills, and we’re just being polite here about it. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/17/what-is-the-casey-report-on-uk-grooming-gangs-and-why-did-labour-u-turn https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/17/what-is-the-casey-r... https://celina101.substack.com/p/the-uks-rape-gang-inquiry https://celina101.substack.com/p/the-uks-rape-gang-inquiry
krona 9mo ago
This database exposed half a million weekend cases which were heard with zero press notification. Many grooming gang trials were heard this way. The database is being deleted weeks before the national inquiry into the grooming gang cover up begins, and the official reason for deleting the data is nonsensical.
- flufluflufluffy 9mo ago
  The data is publicly available. The data being deleted is the private company’s own copy of it.
  - krona 9mo ago
    Data being "available" and it being accessible/searchable are two completely different things.
mhh__ 9mo ago
Why? Grooming gangs went from being a far right conspiracy theory to "there was a coverup" being official government position in a week.
retinaros 9mo ago
wake up its 2026 even obama and clinton are saying more or less that now about illegal immigration

Anyone banging on about coverups of crime due to immigrants should get immediately put in the bad faith argument bin, even if they were a Minister.

by pjc50 9mo ago

Anyone banging on about coverups of crime due to immigrants should get immediately put in the bad faith argument bin, even if they were a Minister.

gulfofamerica 9mo ago

[dead]

carlosjobim 9mo ago

Can you explain your reasoning? Horrible crimes committed by foreign men against native children were covered up for political reasons in the UK. This is common knowledge.

pjc50 9mo ago
In the case of Rotherham, I believe that most of those committing the crimes were not foreign; most were British born British nationals. Ethnicity is not the same as immigration status.
- deleted 9mo ago
  [deleted]
- gib444 9mo ago
  Congratulations, you've corrected us on the usage of the word immigrant. Now can we return to the topic? Whilst we're on Rotherham: "...by men predominantly of Pakistani heritage" [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-61868863 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-61868863 Their parents or grandparents were immigrants...
  - roryirvine 9mo ago
    The topic was crimes committed by "foreign men", and your link refers to crimes committed by non-immigrants. So it would seem that you're the one straying from the topic.
  - pjc50 9mo ago
    Their parents or grandparents didn't commit the crimes, though. We don't usually punish parents for the crime of their adult children.
- carlosjobim 9mo ago
  The question is: Would the crimes have been covered up by authorities if the predators were ethnically English and the victims were children of foreigners?
  - notahacker 9mo ago
    Anyone who's actually paid any attention to the many documented failings of the child protection services in those cases knows the answer to that question is "yes".
    - dash2 9mo ago
      The problem with that argument is that, IIRC, there is direct evidence that one reasons that the abuse was covered up was that authorities were afraid of being accused of racism and/or of stirring up ethnic tensions. I don't think that, to accept this, you need believe that CPS is always perfect when this issue is absent.
      - notahacker 9mo ago
        This is one of the factors that lead to crimes not being better investigated at the time, but then fear of tensions would cases where the alleged perpetrators were white and the victims/witnesses non-white as in the OP's question. (And more generally, teenage girls from working class backgrounds got far less sympathy and far more scepticism than they should have done from the police and CPS and even social workers when they talked about being sexually exploited regardless of race. Certainly no evidence was found they were much more keen to listen to non-white victims or prosecute white people...)
  - mrguyorama 9mo ago
    They covered up Jimmy Savile

reliabilityguy 9mo ago

Why? Immigrants cannot commit crimes? This kind of logic does more disservice than people realize. You can combat bigotry towards immigrants (issue #1), without covering up for criminal immigrants (issue #2) in fear of increase of issue #1 among the natives. It only brings up more resentment and bigotry.

pjc50 9mo ago
Crimes are committed by individuals. "Immigrants" is a group. Prosecution of sexual assault is often handled extremely badly. It needs to be done better, without fear or favor, including people who are friends with the police or in positions of power. As we're seeing the fallout of the Epstein files.
- reliabilityguy 9mo ago
  > Crimes are committed by individuals. "Immigrants" is a group. Great. How does it change the substance of my comment? Perhaps, instead of arguing about whether “immigrants” is always a group as a collective, or a certain number of individuals acting together, you would focus on the high level implications of government’s action or inaction? What do Epstein files have to do with anything right now? Stop shifting the goal posts.
- gib444 9mo ago
  Oh, it's "nothing to see here" bingo time?: - Policing language to distract from the topic. - Trying to claim things are just a series of isolated incidents with absolutely nothing in common - Claiming there are wider problems (that should be addressed in a manner that would take years and isn't even defined well enough to claim measure as being "better")
- blell 9mo ago
  Immigration policy is one of the most important things people vote for in an election. We need transparent crime data so we can make an informed vote.
  - 9mo ago

9x39 9mo ago

Actually that’s what data and the preponderance of victims allege: an intersection of immigration and policing which interlocked to systematically deprioritize the investigation into abuse of working-class white girls by an over represented ethnic group. In the local data that the audit examined from three police forces, they identified clear evidence of “over-representation among suspects of Asian and Pakistani-heritage men”. It’s unfortunate to watch people and entire countries twist themselves in logic pretzels to avoid ever suggesting that immigration has no ills, and we’re just being polite here about it. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/17/what-is-the-casey-report-on-uk-grooming-gangs-and-why-did-labour-u-turn https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/6/17/what-is-the-casey-r... https://celina101.substack.com/p/the-uks-rape-gang-inquiry https://celina101.substack.com/p/the-uks-rape-gang-inquiry

krona 9mo ago

This database exposed half a million weekend cases which were heard with zero press notification. Many grooming gang trials were heard this way. The database is being deleted weeks before the national inquiry into the grooming gang cover up begins, and the official reason for deleting the data is nonsensical.

flufluflufluffy 9mo ago
The data is publicly available. The data being deleted is the private company’s own copy of it.
- krona 9mo ago
  Data being "available" and it being accessible/searchable are two completely different things.

mhh__ 9mo ago

Why? Grooming gangs went from being a far right conspiracy theory to "there was a coverup" being official government position in a week.

retinaros 9mo ago

wake up its 2026 even obama and clinton are saying more or less that now about illegal immigration