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I think we in the West underestimate just how severe the '90s were in Russia. You can observe the fall of the USSR by looking at a graph of average life expecta

I think we in the West underestimate just how severe the '90s were in Russia. You can observe the fall of the USSR by looking at a graph of average life expectancy in Russia, the scale of state failure was really enormous.

libertine 8mo ago
The saddest part is that while the 90s were severe, Russia could have changed for the better.. and the worst part is neighboring countries are suffering along with it. There was a failure of institutional reform - in fact the only institution that seemed to have reformed was corruption, which changed from one elite to another. A lot of the current state propaganda tries really hard to spin the narrative "democratic reform never again, look at the 90s"! Like if democracy is something easy, and plug and play... Or like there's some magical impediment that doesn't allow Russians to go from serfdom to free citizens, as if it's too much for them. For how many centuries did France iterate to implement democracy? The US had a brutal civil war. Japan had to pick itself up after WW2 and change part of the culture. Germany had to be rebuilt. Now we're witnessing another upcoming 90s in Russia - who knows if it will be worse since Russia folded into a regional power. Such a missed opportunity right next to a growing European Union, and China.
- alexejb 8mo ago
  You should look into "shock therapy" and how western powers advised the Russian government at the time. Also how oligarchs came to power from the late 80s to the late 90s. Russia experienced unhinged free market reforms applied by incompetent politicians and opportunists who managed to sell out the accumulated wealth of the former RSFSR in just a few years. I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along" – e.g. Ukraine got all its debts forgiven and inherited specialized industries which were subsidized by Russia during soviet times. They had 25 years to make something out of it and did basically nothing. We'll see how the European Union will "grow" in the next years...
  - wiseowise 8mo ago
    > I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along" – e.g. Ukraine got all its debts forgiven and inherited specialized industries which were subsidized by Russia during soviet times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%93... And many more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_involving_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_involving_Russ... And all that ignoring the puppeteering they’re trying to do in post Soviet republics.
  - Lapsa 8mo ago
    `I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along"` - in Latvia, national banks got smashed, sugar factory closed, steel factory closed, bus factory closed, state forced to take billions in debt from IMF just to stay afloat and avoid default, forced to follow way too often stupid, profit hindering and barely relevant EU regulations (e.g. lawn cutting length), take into account USA sanctions, comply with multiplying foreign auditors while trying to compete in markets with participants hundred times bigger in size. my whole life I've been an observer of "recovery of economy" that never arrives. for a teacher - it takes 75 years of work to afford a modest house. currently - I have no income and can afford only food for couple more months (with 15 years of software development experience across dozens of programming languages, tools, projects, business domains, companies and organizational structures) while marked as schizophrenic dissident, actively stalked and isolated from society. it's slightly harder than figuring out what brand of car your daughter wants as a gift for her sweet sixteen
    - alexejb 8mo ago
      ...and what has Russia to do with it? The Baltics wanted to be independent, they became independent and started getting rid of their industries in order to focus on service economy and EU integration. All the propaganda I've heard tells me that they are prosperous rich countries now.../s
- masterlee_fn 8mo ago
  [dead]
mapt 8mo ago
COVID dropped US life expectancy by about 2 years. The Fall dropped Russian life expectancy by six years for males and three years for females.
- credit_guy 8mo ago
  > COVID dropped US life expectancy by about 2 years. It was a temporary blip. The most recent life expectancy numbers, published last month by the CDC, show that the life expectancy in the US rebounded, and it is at a historical all time high, for both sexes: 2019 (before Covid): males - 76.3, females - 81.4 ([1], page 5) 2021 (after 2 years of decreases): males - 73.5, females - 79.3 ([2], page 3) 2022 (1st year of rebound): males - 74.8, females - 80.2 [3] 2024 (3rd year of rebound): males - 76.5, females - 81.4 [4] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr71/nvsr71-01.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr71/nvsr71-01.pdf [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr72/nvsr72-12.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr72/nvsr72-12.pdf [3] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db521.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db521.htm [4] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db548.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db548.htm

libertine 8mo ago

The saddest part is that while the 90s were severe, Russia could have changed for the better.. and the worst part is neighboring countries are suffering along with it. There was a failure of institutional reform - in fact the only institution that seemed to have reformed was corruption, which changed from one elite to another. A lot of the current state propaganda tries really hard to spin the narrative "democratic reform never again, look at the 90s"! Like if democracy is something easy, and plug and play... Or like there's some magical impediment that doesn't allow Russians to go from serfdom to free citizens, as if it's too much for them. For how many centuries did France iterate to implement democracy? The US had a brutal civil war. Japan had to pick itself up after WW2 and change part of the culture. Germany had to be rebuilt. Now we're witnessing another upcoming 90s in Russia - who knows if it will be worse since Russia folded into a regional power. Such a missed opportunity right next to a growing European Union, and China.

alexejb 8mo ago
You should look into "shock therapy" and how western powers advised the Russian government at the time. Also how oligarchs came to power from the late 80s to the late 90s. Russia experienced unhinged free market reforms applied by incompetent politicians and opportunists who managed to sell out the accumulated wealth of the former RSFSR in just a few years. I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along" – e.g. Ukraine got all its debts forgiven and inherited specialized industries which were subsidized by Russia during soviet times. They had 25 years to make something out of it and did basically nothing. We'll see how the European Union will "grow" in the next years...
- wiseowise 8mo ago
  > I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along" – e.g. Ukraine got all its debts forgiven and inherited specialized industries which were subsidized by Russia during soviet times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_war https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%931993) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Abkhazia_(1992%E2%80%93... And many more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_involving_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_involving_Russ... And all that ignoring the puppeteering they’re trying to do in post Soviet republics.
- Lapsa 8mo ago
  `I don't see how neighboring countries are "suffering along"` - in Latvia, national banks got smashed, sugar factory closed, steel factory closed, bus factory closed, state forced to take billions in debt from IMF just to stay afloat and avoid default, forced to follow way too often stupid, profit hindering and barely relevant EU regulations (e.g. lawn cutting length), take into account USA sanctions, comply with multiplying foreign auditors while trying to compete in markets with participants hundred times bigger in size. my whole life I've been an observer of "recovery of economy" that never arrives. for a teacher - it takes 75 years of work to afford a modest house. currently - I have no income and can afford only food for couple more months (with 15 years of software development experience across dozens of programming languages, tools, projects, business domains, companies and organizational structures) while marked as schizophrenic dissident, actively stalked and isolated from society. it's slightly harder than figuring out what brand of car your daughter wants as a gift for her sweet sixteen
  - alexejb 8mo ago
    ...and what has Russia to do with it? The Baltics wanted to be independent, they became independent and started getting rid of their industries in order to focus on service economy and EU integration. All the propaganda I've heard tells me that they are prosperous rich countries now.../s
masterlee_fn 8mo ago
[dead]

mapt 8mo ago

COVID dropped US life expectancy by about 2 years. The Fall dropped Russian life expectancy by six years for males and three years for females.

credit_guy 8mo ago
> COVID dropped US life expectancy by about 2 years. It was a temporary blip. The most recent life expectancy numbers, published last month by the CDC, show that the life expectancy in the US rebounded, and it is at a historical all time high, for both sexes: 2019 (before Covid): males - 76.3, females - 81.4 ([1], page 5) 2021 (after 2 years of decreases): males - 73.5, females - 79.3 ([2], page 3) 2022 (1st year of rebound): males - 74.8, females - 80.2 [3] 2024 (3rd year of rebound): males - 76.5, females - 81.4 [4] [1] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr71/nvsr71-01.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr71/nvsr71-01.pdf [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr72/nvsr72-12.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr72/nvsr72-12.pdf [3] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db521.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db521.htm [4] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db548.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db548.htm