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Is there really a decline with age when it comes to chess? I’m not sure he will really decline until he reaches his retirement age.

Trufa 8mo ago
There's a sharp decline with age. Magnus himself says he's not as sharp as he was younger, even if he can compensate with experience.
- bee_rider 8mo ago
  He just has to gain experience faster than he loses sharpness.
  - cortesoft 8mo ago
    Just like everyone else
- LanceH 8mo ago
  There are a lot of confounding variables. Chief among them is someone at the top just wanting to get on with their life, start a family for instance, or basically anything other than study 12 hours a day. It's hard to say it's cognitive decline for most of the people who just aren't working as hard at 40 as they were at 25.
  - fc417fc802 8mo ago
    If Chess960 or some other variant that doesn't involve as much rote work becomes sufficiently popular for long enough perhaps it will yield some valuable data about mental function versus age. At least a more holistic view than the studies we currently have.
traes 8mo ago
For some concrete numbers, there are only four players over 50 years of age in the top 100 at the moment by live ratings[0]. They are ranked #13 (age 56), #89 (age 53), #95 (age 54), and #97 (age 57). In their primes these players were ranked #1, #10, #4, and #3 respectively. [0]: https://2700chess.com/?per-page=100 https://2700chess.com/?per-page=100
- Taek 8mo ago
  This is some fascinating data, thanks for pulling it together.
- dehrmann 8mo ago
  Isn't he playing Chess960 because he started finding standard chess boring? And wasn't that why Fischer worked on it in the first place? Experts might get bored of it by the time they're 50.
  - peter422 8mo ago
    The reason the top pros like chess960 is because they don’t need to spend hundreds of hours of opening preparation, they can just sit down and play. Caruana (the guy who lost to Magnus), mused in a podcast that chess960 feels strange as a competitor because he doesn’t really prepare (because there are far too many openings to study) and said it feels like he’s getting paid for much less work.
    - nurettin 8mo ago
      There are 960 possible starting positions and the chosen one is known at the start of the tournament where players are given 15m to prepare. I have observed that GMs aren't surprised when they see the board. They usually go "ah it's this one with the opposite bishops" or something similar.
      - vasco 8mo ago
        When a chess player means "no prep" it probably still means more prep than any normal person would consider reasonable, because what would require you to sit down and take notes, move pieces and memorize, they can just do in their head getting coffee by now. So yeah they recognize almost all the patterns, it's just harder justify spending 1 month on an opening you won't even be able to use, but they still know how to play certain patterns.
        8mo ago
jacquesm 8mo ago
For most people there is a cognitive decline with age, and chess is clearly a cognitive effort. Like with everything else: experience really matters, but you will simply be a bit less sharp over time and in a game where a tiny mistake can compound to a loss it really matters.

Trufa 8mo ago

There's a sharp decline with age. Magnus himself says he's not as sharp as he was younger, even if he can compensate with experience.

bee_rider 8mo ago
He just has to gain experience faster than he loses sharpness.
- cortesoft 8mo ago
  Just like everyone else
LanceH 8mo ago
There are a lot of confounding variables. Chief among them is someone at the top just wanting to get on with their life, start a family for instance, or basically anything other than study 12 hours a day. It's hard to say it's cognitive decline for most of the people who just aren't working as hard at 40 as they were at 25.
- fc417fc802 8mo ago
  If Chess960 or some other variant that doesn't involve as much rote work becomes sufficiently popular for long enough perhaps it will yield some valuable data about mental function versus age. At least a more holistic view than the studies we currently have.

traes 8mo ago

For some concrete numbers, there are only four players over 50 years of age in the top 100 at the moment by live ratings[0]. They are ranked #13 (age 56), #89 (age 53), #95 (age 54), and #97 (age 57). In their primes these players were ranked #1, #10, #4, and #3 respectively. [0]: https://2700chess.com/?per-page=100 https://2700chess.com/?per-page=100

Taek 8mo ago
This is some fascinating data, thanks for pulling it together.
dehrmann 8mo ago
Isn't he playing Chess960 because he started finding standard chess boring? And wasn't that why Fischer worked on it in the first place? Experts might get bored of it by the time they're 50.
- peter422 8mo ago
  The reason the top pros like chess960 is because they don’t need to spend hundreds of hours of opening preparation, they can just sit down and play. Caruana (the guy who lost to Magnus), mused in a podcast that chess960 feels strange as a competitor because he doesn’t really prepare (because there are far too many openings to study) and said it feels like he’s getting paid for much less work.
  - nurettin 8mo ago
    There are 960 possible starting positions and the chosen one is known at the start of the tournament where players are given 15m to prepare. I have observed that GMs aren't surprised when they see the board. They usually go "ah it's this one with the opposite bishops" or something similar.
    - vasco 8mo ago
      When a chess player means "no prep" it probably still means more prep than any normal person would consider reasonable, because what would require you to sit down and take notes, move pieces and memorize, they can just do in their head getting coffee by now. So yeah they recognize almost all the patterns, it's just harder justify spending 1 month on an opening you won't even be able to use, but they still know how to play certain patterns.
      - 8mo ago

jacquesm 8mo ago

For most people there is a cognitive decline with age, and chess is clearly a cognitive effort. Like with everything else: experience really matters, but you will simply be a bit less sharp over time and in a game where a tiny mistake can compound to a loss it really matters.