4 ms·

I would like it a lot better without the mention to the "West", which, as usual, is a code word for: "I want to pretend my point extend outside the USA but I ha

I would like it a lot better without the mention to the "West", which, as usual, is a code word for: "I want to pretend my point extend outside the USA but I have absolutely no knowledge of how true that is. I don't intend to do any research because that would demand efforts from me so bear with my casual imperialism". Queue the purely American historical lesson following.

wredcoll 8mo ago
If we're nitpicking, is it queue or cue?
- StopDisinfo910 8mo ago
  I guess it's cue like on cue but it's late on a Sunday. You will have to excuse my brain. It wasn't a nitpick by the way. I deeply resent American using "the West" like if my own country and culture was somehow fungible in their experience. They are not. We don't have that much in common. That doesn't include a legal tradition, or a conception of what freedom of speech should be, neither does it include values or history. Edit: Enjoy downvoting me. It doesn't make what I said any less true. If you think the various European countries can be grouped with the US in a coherent whole, you are deeply deluding yourselves. They can't even be lumped together.
  - wredcoll 8mo ago
    It would probably help if you made a more specific point rather than just ranting in very vague terms. Grouping terms like "the west" can be broad enough to include over half of all living humans or so narrow that it applies to a small village. It is, admittedly, not a particularly useful term, but it's not like americans are reaponsible for it.
    - StopDisinfo910 8mo ago
      Where have you seen it used outside of Americans pretending their culture is somehow a standard and NATO apologists? The world doesn't even exist as such in my own language. It's a staple on Hacker News and nearly always for the bad reasons. I'm supposed to politely nod and shut up when people are casually erasing my culture?
      - wredcoll 8mo ago
        What even is a "nato apologist"??? > Where have you seen it used outside of Americans Well, there was this minor thing called "the western roman empire" for a few years, so that might be a starting point. I am fascinated to learn how a claim that westerners "prefer liberty over security" is somehow erasing your culture though.
        marcus_holmes 8mo ago
        The Western Roman Empire has nothing to do with "the West". I think it's fascinating that that's even suggested. I lived in Germany for a while. Germany is definitely a part of "the West", have been the defining border with "the East" in the Cold War. Germans do not share a cultural viewpoint about liberty and security with the USA. So claiming that westerners "prefer liberty over security" while also including Germans (and others) in the definition of "the West" is absolutely erasing their culture.
        wredcoll 8mo ago
        > The Western Roman Empire has nothing to do with "the West". I think it's fascinating that that's even suggested. I got that bit from wikipedia, it amused me. As for germans, if they do not share such a viewpoint (and now I want evidence either way), the claim about the west is merely wrong, not "cultural erasure".
        watwut 8mo ago
        French have fairly serious differences against USA too.
mmooss 8mo ago
Universal human rights is a very widespread belief and concept, extending to all continents and many, many cultures. It's not hard to understand why.
- logicchains 8mo ago
  No it's not. There are no human rights for the lowest castes in Hinduism, there are no human rights for polytheists in Islam, there were nothing like the modern idea of human rights in Japan or China before they westernized. That's why the west was able to leapfrog other nations economically (and hence militarily), because it was the first place where people had enough rights for something resembling a modern economy to develop.
  - whattheheckheck 8mo ago
    If you don't give someone a reason to live they ain't gonna slave away very hard for you
  - wredcoll 8mo ago
    I mean, nobody knows why "the west" (whatever that is) leapfrogged anyone, and this is a fairly small period in terms of total human history.
    - kortilla 8mo ago
      The industrial revolution is quite well documented
      - wredcoll 8mo ago
        Things people did, sure, but not why they did them here and not there is a bit trickier. There's a variety of theories, easy access to coal is my favorite, but some people like to blame the magna carta or something.
        Der_Einzige 8mo ago
1718627440 8mo ago
Greek philosophy did not happen in the USA and actually predates it quite a bit.

wredcoll 8mo ago

If we're nitpicking, is it queue or cue?

StopDisinfo910 8mo ago
I guess it's cue like on cue but it's late on a Sunday. You will have to excuse my brain. It wasn't a nitpick by the way. I deeply resent American using "the West" like if my own country and culture was somehow fungible in their experience. They are not. We don't have that much in common. That doesn't include a legal tradition, or a conception of what freedom of speech should be, neither does it include values or history. Edit: Enjoy downvoting me. It doesn't make what I said any less true. If you think the various European countries can be grouped with the US in a coherent whole, you are deeply deluding yourselves. They can't even be lumped together.
- wredcoll 8mo ago
  It would probably help if you made a more specific point rather than just ranting in very vague terms. Grouping terms like "the west" can be broad enough to include over half of all living humans or so narrow that it applies to a small village. It is, admittedly, not a particularly useful term, but it's not like americans are reaponsible for it.
  - StopDisinfo910 8mo ago
    Where have you seen it used outside of Americans pretending their culture is somehow a standard and NATO apologists? The world doesn't even exist as such in my own language. It's a staple on Hacker News and nearly always for the bad reasons. I'm supposed to politely nod and shut up when people are casually erasing my culture?
    - wredcoll 8mo ago
      What even is a "nato apologist"??? > Where have you seen it used outside of Americans Well, there was this minor thing called "the western roman empire" for a few years, so that might be a starting point. I am fascinated to learn how a claim that westerners "prefer liberty over security" is somehow erasing your culture though.
      - marcus_holmes 8mo ago
        The Western Roman Empire has nothing to do with "the West". I think it's fascinating that that's even suggested. I lived in Germany for a while. Germany is definitely a part of "the West", have been the defining border with "the East" in the Cold War. Germans do not share a cultural viewpoint about liberty and security with the USA. So claiming that westerners "prefer liberty over security" while also including Germans (and others) in the definition of "the West" is absolutely erasing their culture.
        wredcoll 8mo ago
        > The Western Roman Empire has nothing to do with "the West". I think it's fascinating that that's even suggested. I got that bit from wikipedia, it amused me. As for germans, if they do not share such a viewpoint (and now I want evidence either way), the claim about the west is merely wrong, not "cultural erasure".
        watwut 8mo ago
        French have fairly serious differences against USA too.

mmooss 8mo ago

Universal human rights is a very widespread belief and concept, extending to all continents and many, many cultures. It's not hard to understand why.

logicchains 8mo ago
No it's not. There are no human rights for the lowest castes in Hinduism, there are no human rights for polytheists in Islam, there were nothing like the modern idea of human rights in Japan or China before they westernized. That's why the west was able to leapfrog other nations economically (and hence militarily), because it was the first place where people had enough rights for something resembling a modern economy to develop.
- whattheheckheck 8mo ago
  If you don't give someone a reason to live they ain't gonna slave away very hard for you
- wredcoll 8mo ago
  I mean, nobody knows why "the west" (whatever that is) leapfrogged anyone, and this is a fairly small period in terms of total human history.
  - kortilla 8mo ago
    The industrial revolution is quite well documented
    - wredcoll 8mo ago
      Things people did, sure, but not why they did them here and not there is a bit trickier. There's a variety of theories, easy access to coal is my favorite, but some people like to blame the magna carta or something.
      - Der_Einzige 8mo ago

1718627440 8mo ago

Greek philosophy did not happen in the USA and actually predates it quite a bit.